Does Christianity restrict your freedom?

[Allie]

I am here to talk about what I see as the misconception of all Christians being un-free.

Before we begin, however, (the people who have seen me before will be reading this again) I will say that I come to you in the humblest of circumstances, I am still very young.

So, I will start off -- I do not believe that Christians are not free. Oh, and before I begin, know that many of my arguments will be repetitions of what Ben Stuart has said. I listened to one of his sermons ('Shouldn't we Find our own Way?' -- Free on iTunes) and have been inspired to start this debate.

A response to some general commandments in the Bible, which I know will come up:
Yes, there are commandments in the Bible; they were given to us because of Christ's love for us, they were given to us for our own well-being. He wants us to live fully satisfying, joyful, and fulfilled lives, which we could not do without his guidance.

I'm not sure how much I should say before I actually start debating (Oh, the lack of experience!) so I'll leave it at that.

Okay, I'm ready. Go ahead.

[otseng]

Moderator note:

Stay on topic please. Let's avoid going down rabbit trails and personal comments. Thanks.

[twobitsmedia]

.

Have you attended an Atheist convention or researched policies related thereto? If not, from where do you obtain information on which to base an opinion?

I didn't know atheists had convention and policies...go figure.............They usually scatter like bugs under a magnifying glass if one tries to ID them...

I could understand that with the numbers of Christians who hate them and want to persecute them.

What a ridiculous statement. Are you being persecuted by a Christian? {|=

I am not an atheist. Do I need to point you to the thread in the A room where most atheist claim they are being persecuted? Your's was in fact the ridiculous claim as others have pointed out.

I only proves my point further that you scatter when trying to ID you, and you don't know what you are. But it is irrelevant anyway, as I made no comment to YOU about atheists.

[Cathar1950]

.

Have you attended an Atheist convention or researched policies related thereto? If not, from where do you obtain information on which to base an opinion?

I didn't know atheists had convention and policies...go figure.............They usually scatter like bugs under a magnifying glass if one tries to ID them...

I could understand that with the numbers of Christians who hate them and want to persecute them.

What a ridiculous statement. Are you being persecuted by a Christian? {|=

I am not an atheist. Do I need to point you to the thread in the A room where most atheist claim they are being persecuted? Your's was in fact the ridiculous claim as others have pointed out.

I only proves my point further that you scatter when trying to ID you, and you don't know what you are. But it is irrelevant anyway, as I made no comment to YOU about atheists.

You just don't know enough to stop do you?
You made an unwarranted and untrue comment about atheists in this thread and there are atheist here.
Then you claim it is not directed at him while saying what he said proves your point(another unwarranted statement) about him, that atheist scatter.
When and where have atheist scattered like bugs under a microscope?
Your comment is not only irrelevant but it is also not true and yes atheists and heretics have been persecuted by theists. Many have even been put to death. In fact 100's of thousands have been killed where in the few centuries before the orthodox came to power only a few thousand Christians at most were killed
in the few persecutions by Rome.
I don't even see where your comment relates to the thread.
Do you?

[twobitsmedia]

.

Have you attended an Atheist convention or researched policies related thereto? If not, from where do you obtain information on which to base an opinion?

I didn't know atheists had convention and policies...go figure.............They usually scatter like bugs under a magnifying glass if one tries to ID them...

I could understand that with the numbers of Christians who hate them and want to persecute them.

What a ridiculous statement. Are you being persecuted by a Christian? {|=

I am not an atheist. Do I need to point you to the thread in the A room where most atheist claim they are being persecuted? Your's was in fact the ridiculous claim as others have pointed out.

I only proves my point further that you scatter when trying to ID you, and you don't know what you are. But it is irrelevant anyway, as I made no comment to YOU about atheists.

You just don't know enough to stop do you?
You made an unwarranted and untrue comment about atheists in this thread and there are atheist here.
Then you claim it is not directed at him while saying what he said proves your point(another unwarranted statement) about him, that atheist scatter.
When and where have atheist scattered like bugs under a microscope?
Your comment is not only irrelevant but it is also not true and yes atheists and heretics have been persecuted by theists. Many have even been put to death. In fact 100's of thousands have been killed where in the few centuries before the orthodox came to power only a few thousand Christians at most were killed
in the few persecutions by Rome.
I don't even see where your comment relates to the thread.
Do you?

In case you have not figured it out, I dont even read your posts...they are wordy and unrelated to any issue. I just presume you like to type...

[OnceConvinced]

.

Have you attended an Atheist convention or researched policies related thereto? If not, from where do you obtain information on which to base an opinion?

I didn't know atheists had convention and policies...go figure.............They usually scatter like bugs under a magnifying glass if one tries to ID them...

I could understand that with the numbers of Christians who hate them and want to persecute them.

What a ridiculous statement. Are you being persecuted by a Christian? {|=

I am not an atheist. Do I need to point you to the thread in the A room where most atheist claim they are being persecuted? Your's was in fact the ridiculous claim as others have pointed out.

I only proves my point further that you scatter when trying to ID you, and you don't know what you are.

That's just a ridiculous comment. You may have trouble IDing me, but I am quite open about my stance. I have no reason to scatter. If you look to the left you can see the user groups I belong to. I have been in those user groups for a very long time. Just because you are confused does not mean I am.

But it is irrelevant anyway, as I made no comment to YOU about atheists.

Agnostics are not persecuted. The word "agnostic" does not have the stigma that "atheist" has. Atheists are the ones who are often painted as evil and satanic.

[twobitsmedia]

Atheists are the ones who are often painted as evil and satanic.

If I were you, I would look for people with the brushes in their hand before casting stones.

[daedalus 2.0]

Atheists are the ones who are often painted as evil and satanic.

If I were you, I would look for people with the brushes in their hand before casting stones.

Trolly troll troll troll?

[micatala]

Moderator Intervention

In case you have not figured it out, I dont even read your posts...they are wordy and unrelated to any issue. I just presume you like to type...

This is an unproductive one-liner, and thus, against the rules.

Debate the topic, not the debater. If you don't want to read a particular members posts, that is your perogative and the forum has an ignore feature to assist you. There is no reason to mention this in the thread.

I didn't know atheists had convention and policies...go figure.............They usually scatter like bugs under a magnifying glass if one tries to ID them...

This is also unproductive and probably could be classified as inflammatory. Likening those you disagree with to insects is not in the spirit of civil debate.

Trolly troll troll troll?

Again, this is unproductive and a personal attack. If you believe a member is violating the rules, please use the report feature of the forum, as one member did in reporting this post.


I will repeat otseng's injunction to stay on topic and avoid going down rabbit trails. If the thread continues to degenerate into personal comments, the moderators will consider taking action to shut it down.

[Cathar1950]

Atheists are the ones who are often painted as evil and satanic.

If I were you, I would look for people with the brushes in their hand before casting stones.

Trolly troll troll troll?

I can't help but see your point.

It started at the bottom and worked its way down.

.

Have you attended an Atheist convention or researched policies related thereto? If not, from where do you obtain information on which to base an opinion?

I didn't know atheists had convention and policies...go figure.............They usually scatter like bugs under a magnifying glass if one tries to ID them...

I was objecting to the above comment and was informed I used to many words and he didn't understand. Then he admitted he didn't even read my posts and I am wondering if he reads any of them.

I thought he started out pretty good with this:

Depends on what is meant by "free." In the truest sense of the word I do not think anyone is free.

The OP did start out pretty general but was clearer here:
"]

Allie,

Respectfully and gently:

Are ALL Christians free to do ALL of the following and stay within the “good graces� (or approved doctrine or behavior) of their sect?

1. Marry anyone of their choice regardless of that person’s religious affiliations or absence thereof?

2. Participate in other religions or honor other gods?

3. Raise their children in different faiths?

4. Refuse to attend religious services?

5. Dress and groom themselves as they wish?

6. Eat whatever food they desire?

7. Speak openly against church officials?

Are ANY Christians free to do ALL of the above?

All of us probably realize that the honest answer to all of the above questions is “NO� because many sects insist upon limitation of choices in each of the areas mentioned.


Limitation of choices IS limitation of freedom to choose whether the individual agrees to those limitations or not. Even if believers WANT the limitations, they are still limitations, so one cannot say they do not exist.

I don't see how you could exist without some limits as humans or for that matter anything else.
I question our ideas of freedom and especially special definitions of freedom.
Different Christianities as well as other religions will have differing rules, if we are talking about rules.
This question on Christian freedom may be a better discussion within a persons sect. A Bible-Believer and a Liberal may and do have different notions of freedom and even within Their Christian traditions differing ideas of freedom and rules or Laws.
Paul has his own take and with him I question if we can talk about the same thing as he make life death and death life and freedom and slavery are all mixed up with Law and grace.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

I am here to talk about what I see as the misconception of all Christians being un-free.

Before we begin, however, (the people who have seen me before will be reading this again) I will say that I come to you in the humblest of circumstances, I am still very young.

So, I will start off -- I do not believe that Christians are not free. Oh, and before I begin, know that many of my arguments will be repetitions of what Ben Stuart has said. I listened to one of his sermons ('Shouldn't we Find our own Way?' -- Free on iTunes) and have been inspired to start this debate.

A response to some general commandments in the Bible, which I know will come up:
Yes, there are commandments in the Bible; they were given to us because of Christ's love for us, they were given to us for our own well-being. He wants us to live fully satisfying, joyful, and fulfilled lives, which we could not do without his guidance.

I'm not sure how much I should say before I actually start debating (Oh, the lack of experience!) so I'll leave it at that.

Okay, I'm ready. Go ahead.

A benevolent dictator is a dictator nonetheless. The fact is that, if we are to believe the Christian concept of God (I personally don't, but I will be referring to the Christian concept of God as simply God from this point on), God is a dictator, and heaven, again, according to the Christian conception, is a dictatorship. God has a singular view of how things are to be done, embodied by the commandments and other laws of the Bible. If these laws are not followed, there will be punishment. Just like a parent, coddling and shielding their child, we are told that the rules God creates for us are for out own good, but this is of no consequence. In the end, he is limiting our freedom by forcing us down his path and only his path. We must suffer the consequences if we don't. Now, every action has a consequence in this world, and even without God, certain actions would create negative consequences. The difference between God and natural consequence, however, is that natural consequence can frequently be overcome. Even something like death is slowly but surely being overcome. God, on the other hand, cannot be overcome. He is an absolute ruler who has absolute power, and nothing can change that. So, we must essentially spend our lives groveling and begging for the scraps off of his "divine" table, to be allocated at the whim of his "divine" judgment. And they call Christianity a religion of hope...

/rant over.