Pascal's Wager again

[Zzyzx]

.
In one of the threads a member indicated that philosophical arguments, including Pascal's Wager, rule out the possibility of God not existing.

Blaise Pascal actually wrote (but did not publish) "If you gain, you gain all. If you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then, without hesitation, that He exists."

He did NOT use this as an argument that God exists. Instead, his argument is that whether God exists or not one should "bet" on existence. Betting is not argument for existence – but a gamble on what is (admittedly to Pascal) unknown.

I maintain that his proposal is faulty even in that:

1) The wager assumes a singular god (to bet on or against) when thousands of gods have been proposed, some of whom are said to require exclusive right to be worshiped and condemn worshipers of competing gods. Thus, it cannot be determined which of the proposed gods to worship. In other words, first pick one of the gods (with less than 1/10 percent chance of being right), then decide whether to bet for or against. Or, repeat this thousands of times . . .

2) There is no assurance that any god requires belief (or betting) by humans – and could require exactly the opposite – (disapproval of gullibility or naivete). Who knows such thing beyond speculation and opinion (ancient or modern)?

3) "Lose nothing" is incorrect unless ALL that is required by the god is betting / wagering that it exists (without "putting up" or "anteing" anything at all). In fact, however, some (at least) of the gods are said to require "true belief" (much more than just a bet) and most religions add all sorts of conditions to be followed by worshipers.


The argument may sound compelling in church when assumptions are made about which god to believe exists and what the god requires of believers.

Question for debate: Is the argument compelling or convincing in debate?

[H.sapiens]

Is it that 'all claims of God/gods' are irrational?

yes. All claims of the existence of Godd/gods that I am aware of are without sufficient evidence.

How about my scientific evidence of God, as the Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am", .. the One, only One that His Son Word even came down to 'reveal to us?
I don't mean all them other god/gods created by and through religions, you know the ones the pagans study in theology, but God as the "Ground of Being", The Mind the part we humans have that makes us who we are, .. individuals, not the body part which is made of dust like every other creature is, but the mind/spirit!?

How about it? You have presented nothing that is recognizable as science.

Just as you are an ape, your parents are also apes. But mirror does not tell the real tale, your chromosomes do. Homo sapiens’ Chromosome Two clearly reveals your connection to the other apes through a common ancestor.

Now that's offensive, what have I ever done to you, for you to speak so cruel of me, my family all the way to my ancestors, answer me that?

Sorry you see it that way, it is not meant to be offensive or cruel, but it is a fact ... at least in scientific terms, even if your religion denies it ... might I point out denies it without any evidence what-so-ever.

Is it offensive to say that you are a mammals ?

Hello McCulloch.

No, neither is if he called me and my family 'biological life', or that "Ha, ha, ha, .. you and your family have hands, ears, eyes like monkeys have hands, ears eyes!" no matter what tone it came by. But what he keeps calling me and my family is animals, apes. Now that is really offensive since, .. well here, let me give you an example; We, that is my friend H.sapiens and my family could be walking up to a public building one day, and him run up front of me and my family and point to the sign on the door: "Absolutely No Animals Are Allowed in Building!"

The signs that the ignorant place on buildings is all you are worried about? I'd be happy to buy you a can of spray paint.

No different than the old "Absolutely No Blacks/Niggers Allowed in Building!" Just because me and my family have hands, ears, eyes like apes have hands, ears, eyes and chromosomes, atoms, cells and whatever God created us by .. don't make us animals, especially apes.

That bears no relationship at all. Once again your attempt at analogy faceplants.

No one has ever by looking at me mistaken me for an ape, or any other monkey, and I am willing to lay down on a couch at a psychologist next to an ape laying on a couch next to me, and we can do a psychoanalysis between the two of us and prove there also that I am not an ape.

Sorry ... ape! You are no more different from a Bonobo than an Orangutan or a Gorilla is, you are just differently different.

For six thousand years of recorded history there was never a confusion as to what were animals and who were human, or who was male and who is female, but now in this last 100 years of all this "Enlightenment, and Technological Boom, and Big-bangs" suddenly there is all this confusion!? What gives?

You're the only one here who is confused.

If gays (same-sex couples) now have the right to marry which has always been a man and woman thing (if you doubt it, look at the oldest surviving mammals the Alligators, male and female coupling going back tens, .. thousands and even millions and millions of years!) and were given their right, then forgive me for asking not to be called an animal. I mean me and my family are starting to feel guilty entering any public buildings with the "No Animals Allowed!" Warning-signs.

Whoa, get a grip ... alligators are not mammals, they are reptiles.

I mean like my daughter, she is such a good law-abider, she'll remind me of even menial laws I have gotten used to breaking (spitting, like cherry-pits on the side walk), so it frightens me to think that when she is made to learn in science/biology that she is nothing but an evolving animal, an ape, .. that I might find her one day kneeling front of the bank holding a leash around her neck, asking people if she could be their "Seeing-Eye dog" so she could enter to do her banking! You know what I mean? Is that asking for much to have the right to remain a human, .. me a male and my wife a female??

She is human, so are you, "human" just happens to be a subcategory of "apes."

I am NOT asking for those loyal members of the Evolution Religion to be referred to ONLY as human as me and my family, or even for them to pretend to be human, I have respect for all religions. I just want my humanity back, and ask that you (generic you) don't call me an animal, .. thank you.

We are all human.
We are all apes.
We are all mammals.
We are all vertebrates.
We are all animals. (the only alternative is being a vegetable)

[arian]

Is it that 'all claims of God/gods' are irrational?

yes. All claims of the existence of Godd/gods that I am aware of are without sufficient evidence.

How about my scientific evidence of God, as the Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am", .. the One, only One that His Son Word even came down to 'reveal to us?
I don't mean all them other god/gods created by and through religions, you know the ones the pagans study in theology, but God as the "Ground of Being", The Mind the part we humans have that makes us who we are, .. individuals, not the body part which is made of dust like every other creature is, but the mind/spirit!?

How about it? You have presented nothing that is recognizable as science.

Just as you are an ape, your parents are also apes. But mirror does not tell the real tale, your chromosomes do. Homo sapiens’ Chromosome Two clearly reveals your connection to the other apes through a common ancestor.

Now that's offensive, what have I ever done to you, for you to speak so cruel of me, my family all the way to my ancestors, answer me that?

Sorry you see it that way, it is not meant to be offensive or cruel, but it is a fact ... at least in scientific terms, even if your religion denies it ... might I point out denies it without any evidence what-so-ever.

Is it offensive to say that you are a mammals ?

Hello McCulloch.

No, neither is if he called me and my family 'biological life', or that "Ha, ha, ha, .. you and your family have hands, ears, eyes like monkeys have hands, ears eyes!" no matter what tone it came by. But what he keeps calling me and my family is animals, apes. Now that is really offensive since, .. well here, let me give you an example; We, that is my friend H.sapiens and my family could be walking up to a public building one day, and him run up front of me and my family and point to the sign on the door: "Absolutely No Animals Are Allowed in Building!"

The signs that the ignorant place on buildings is all you are worried about? I'd be happy to buy you a can of spray paint.

(sorry for the delayed response)

Oh no, .. not what the "ignorant place on the building", it is the millions of people who claim to believe in Evolution that ignore these signs. That is what's interesting for me!?

Back in the day white supremacists used to put "No Niggers allowed" signs in restaurant windows, and Blacks used to heed the signs. Now we see "Absolutely no animals allowed" and even Pastor Dawkins will ignore it and just walk right in, and the business-owners say NOTHING of it!? Hmm, .. as if there is no Evolutionist that actually believes in Evolution, .. the (supposedly) scientific Taxonomy classification of humans as animals?

No different than the old "Absolutely No Blacks/Niggers Allowed in Building!" Just because me and my family have hands, ears, eyes like apes have hands, ears, eyes and chromosomes, atoms, cells and whatever God created us by .. don't make us animals, especially apes.

That bears no relationship at all. Once again your attempt at analogy faceplants.

If you are confused as to whether or not you are an ape, .. just ask a child. Or better yet, go into the cage with an ape at the zoo, and see if it thinks you are an ape?

No one has ever by looking at me mistaken me for an ape, or any other monkey, and I am willing to lay down on a couch at a psychologist next to an ape laying on a couch next to me, and we can do a psychoanalysis between the two of us and prove there also that I am not an ape.

Sorry ... ape! You are no more different from a Bonobo than an Orangutan or a Gorilla is, you are just differently different.

Lol, .. really? Here, see the poster in this video with the picture of that typical white suburban housewife amongst apes? She is just another ape, right? Lol, ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh0F4FBLJRE

For six thousand years of recorded history there was never a confusion as to what were animals and who were human, or who was male and who is female, but now in this last 100 years of all this "Enlightenment, and Technological Boom, and Big-bangs" suddenly there is all this confusion!? What gives?

You're the only one here who is confused.

The only one?? Oh no, .. don't forget the signs on businesses, especially that the signs are there specifically for humans, .. I mean no store owner would put up signs for animals to read!? Don't be silly.

If gays (same-sex couples) now have the right to marry which has always been a man and woman thing (if you doubt it, look at the oldest surviving mammals the Alligators, male and female coupling going back tens, .. thousands and even millions and millions of years!) and were given their right, then forgive me for asking not to be called an animal. I mean me and my family are starting to feel guilty entering any public buildings with the "No Animals Allowed!" Warning-signs.

Whoa, get a grip ... alligators are not mammals, they are reptiles.

Oh, so reptiles are gay? I think not, they know male from female just like all the other mammals, .. except BB-Evolutionists. They are the only ones having gender-confusion issues, or seeing the difference between them and other animals, especially apes.

I mean like my daughter, she is such a good law-abider, she'll remind me of even menial laws I have gotten used to breaking (spitting, like cherry-pits on the side walk), so it frightens me to think that when she is made to learn in science/biology that she is nothing but an evolving animal, an ape, .. that I might find her one day kneeling front of the bank holding a leash around her neck, asking people if she could be their "Seeing-Eye dog" so she could enter to do her banking! You know what I mean? Is that asking for much to have the right to remain a human, .. me a male and my wife a female??

She is human, so are you, "human" just happens to be a subcategory of "apes."

So animal, or human, ape or woman? You see, you can't distinguish between an animal like an ape, a chimp, a bonobo and a human female girl

I have never in my life heard a City worker confuse an animal like an ape on the side of the road for clean up, with a human. Never. Only White Supremacist Evolutionists would be so cruel as to compare a human (and we know which humans they would pick, don't we?) with an animal, especially an ape.

I am NOT asking for those loyal members of the Evolution Religion to be referred to ONLY as human as me and my family, or even for them to pretend to be human, I have respect for all religions. I just want my humanity back, and ask that you (generic you) don't call me an animal, .. thank you.

We are all human.
We are all apes.
We are all mammals.
We are all vertebrates.
We are all animals. (the only alternative is being a vegetable)

Why, .. where did vegetables evolve from?

A. The Big-Bang in nothing. So, ..

We are all "nothing".
We are all Big-Bang.
We are all primordial gasses.
We are all primordial soup.
We are all amoeba.
We are all single celled bacteria (The alternative is being created in Gods image, except for apes.)