Does he have a valid point?

[Zzyzx]

.

Bill Maher:
"When I hear from people that religion doesn't hurt anything, I say really? Well besides wars, the crusades, the inquisitions, 9-11, ethnic cleansing, the suppression of women, the suppression of homosexuals, fatwas, honor killings, suicide bombings, arranged marriages to minors, human sacrifice, burning witches, and systematic sex with children, I have a few little quibbles. And I forgot blowing up girl schools in Afghanistan."

Some say "The good outweighs the bad." If so what is that weighty good?

Many say "That is just the other religions." Is that true?

[BwhoUR]

[Replying to post 10 by Wootah]

Why do Christians like to throw the word "abortion" around (generalizing as if they are all the same and usually specifically describing "partial birth" as if that's the most common way) when their own God created his only son for the express reason of killing him after he was born, has ordered thousands of firstborn sons and mother's killed (after they were born) and describes Abraham as a faithful guy for being cool with taking his own son's life for no reason other than to prove he likes God best? I don't get the outrage.

[H.sapiens]

Actually, if you blame God for all the fertilized eggs that did not and do not and will not survive, you'll find that the designer (if he, she, or it exists) to be the greatest abortionist of all. The odds of a fertilized egg making it to a live birth are less than 1 in 5, so it does not seem that any creator give a damn about what happens to the unborn. We know this because the designer equipped humans with such a defective reproductive system most conceptions naturally fail to come to term, killing about 400 billion of the unborn (there having been about 100 billion born so far.

[OnceConvinced]

The wars? WW1 and WW2 saw Christians fighting each other. How can THAT be over Christianity?

Seriously? ...

Yes seriously. WW2 was NOT a war about transubstantiation or the Trinity or OSAS, or infralapsarianism and if you think it was then perhaps
....it would be prudent to learn some history.
Right Zzyzx ?

You have taken my reply out of context. You made the comment "The wars? WW1 and WW2 saw Christians fighting each other. How can THAT be over Christianity?"

As if Christians couldn't possibly be fighting each other because they are Christians. Have I misinterpreted that?

To which I replied:

"Seriously? Have you ever mixed and mingled with Christians? There are often disagreements... etc etc"

My point is that Christians will fight against each other and that just because they are Christians doesn't mean they're gonna be at peace with each other.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your original words? I have been known to do that from time to time. Even ended up with one member blocking me because of it.

[OnceConvinced]

Some of my loudest opponents on the internet religious discussion circuit call themselves Christians, but if they're real christians I'm Mary Poppins!
Same with my "religious ancestors", I'm no more spiritually related to them than I am to Attilla the Hun..

There's a quote I love which goes "If we eliminated every Christian that accused another Christian of not being a true Christian, we'd have no Christians."

Clearly you believe you are a true Christian and I'm betting there are many Christians who don't believe you are. What makes you so sure you are one of those "True Christians" and what puts you in the position to be able to judge who are the true Christians and who are not?

[BwhoUR]

[Replying to post 94 by OnceConvinced]

My FIL believes that even Cristians who are living in third world countries, spreading the word and feeding the hungry are not true Christians if they are killed by locals. He truly believes that true Christians are "covered by the blood of Jesus" and because of that, cannot be harmed. I think it's a good way to weed out the posers. He has his own church so he's an expert.

[BwhoUR]

[Replying to post 92 by H.sapiens]

And about 1 in 100 are third trimester miscarriages or stillbirths.

[bjs]

Show me another social system or belief system that has that kind of power over its adherents if you can.

Well, the one I already mentioned in this thread is atheism. In the USSR it had the power to convince people, both in the highest levels of leadership and in the day to day government operations, to arrest and execute millions of individuals solely because they believed in God.

Saying that they were all “bad people� seems like a cop out. I’m sure a few of them were indeed “bad people� who searched for any excuse to exercise power and harm others. But we are talking about thousands of people actively taking part in these murders, and millions more sitting on the sidelines watching it happen. Are they all just “bad people�?

If so, how is that different from saying that everyone involved in the inquisitions were just “bad people�? How is it different from saying that those who allow their children to die when it is in the power to save them are simply “bad people�?

If we are going to excuse the fact that people have done bad things to advance atheism in the world by saying those were all “bad people� and their belief system, or lack thereof, had nothing to do with it, then shouldn’t we give the same excuse when people do things because of religion?

[Hamsaka]

Show me another social system or belief system that has that kind of power over its adherents if you can.

Well, the one I already mentioned in this thread is atheism. In the USSR it had the power to convince people, both in the highest levels of leadership and in the day to day government operations, to arrest and execute millions of individuals solely because they believed in God.

Saying that they were all “bad people� seems like a cop out. I’m sure a few of them were indeed “bad people� who searched for any excuse to exercise power and harm others. But we are talking about thousands of people actively taking part in these murders, and millions more sitting on the sidelines watching it happen. Are they all just “bad people�?

If so, how is that different from saying that everyone involved in the inquisitions were just “bad people�? How is it different from saying that those who allow their children to die when it is in the power to save them are simply “bad people�?

If we are going to excuse the fact that people have done bad things to advance atheism in the world by saying those were all “bad people� and their belief system, or lack thereof, had nothing to do with it, then shouldn’t we give the same excuse when people do things because of religion?

Can you provide a link to a scholarly or professional article where an analysis of the conditions in this revolution were impacted by atheism?

I suppose the Marxist-Leninist political ideologies that drove to Bolsheviks to persecute the Russian Orthodox Church (after all, the ROC was the power base the Bolsheviks overthrew) was . . . incidental?

[bjs]

Can you provide a link to a scholarly or professional article where an analysis of the conditions in this revolution were impacted by atheism?

I suppose the Marxist-Leninist political ideologies that drove to Bolsheviks to persecute the Russian Orthodox Church (after all, the ROC was the power base the Bolsheviks overthrew) was . . . incidental?

This Wikipedia site will give the basic run down of the events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuti ... viet_Union

You can check some of the more than 100 citations for more scholarly information. You can also go to your local library. Even a small local library is likely to have some history books on the topic, and a more scholarly library will have several sources.

The persecution of religious people – not just Orthodox Christians – last well past the revolution itself.

[Hamsaka]

Can you provide a link to a scholarly or professional article where an analysis of the conditions in this revolution were impacted by atheism?

I suppose the Marxist-Leninist political ideologies that drove to Bolsheviks to persecute the Russian Orthodox Church (after all, the ROC was the power base the Bolsheviks overthrew) was . . . incidental?

This Wikipedia site will give the basic run down of the events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuti ... viet_Union

You can check some of the more than 100 citations for more scholarly information. You can also go to your local library. Even a small local library is likely to have some history books on the topic, and a more scholarly library will have several sources.

The persecution of religious people – not just Orthodox Christians – last well past the revolution itself.

Ironically I checked some facts with that same Wiki article before I hit 'submit'.

In your previous post, you portray the revolution as if atheism were the core ideology driving the massacres, rather than Marxism 'interpreted' by sociopathic, power-greedy despots. Do you see what I'm trying to say?

Atheism doesn't DO anything. I know you've had this explained to you, or read it explained, as is necessary when theists want to distract readers from religious atrocities, and give 'atheism' an evil intent. It was one of many tools in the tool belts of some really awful human beings. Atheism was never why.

As the Wiki article notes, the ROC was the seat of power pre-USSR. Naturally, the church was persecuted and religion vilified as a means to claim power for the communists. Hoping to characterize the revolution as an atheist attack on Christians is so beside the point it would cause the local sixth grade World History class to frown. It's a stupid distinction to have to make, but this kind of disinformation is dishonest and has no place in debate. As many times as this has been corrected around here, the only reason to use this disinformation is to provoke skeptics, historians, and atheists.

Perhaps you didn't note that religion was allowed in private and personal life but illegal in public (kind of like the LGTB community was forced to live for decades, or atheists). I'm not denying Christians were persecuted, and it was morally disgusting to do so. But there's no comparison with modern atheism, it's own kind of 'movement', and the corrupt communist regime that used atheism among other 'tools' to oppress the people. It's a good example of Christian propaganda, though, in case anyone is collecting them.