Are Christians "willfully ignorant"?

[Lotan]

"Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord." 1 Co. 15:58

Is there any difference between the Christian doctrine of "steadfastness" and "willfull ignorance"?

[Scrotum]

It's not trollish since Scrotum defined a philosophical term incorrectly and others might assume this is correct. I would do the same if creationists tried to sneak their "creation science" garbage into a post.

Hold on, dont bring my glorious name up in your rebuttal here man. Atheism is defined as philosophical term by you Harvey, heck, we have entire threads regarding You and Your Way... The rest of the roundworlders dont agree, coz we are special.

Atheists act exactly like religious fanatics. A rose by any other name. Even conquering in a no-gods name. They are well financed and organized. They have a well-defined agenda and proselytize incessantly (college campuses their main mission field), prophets and all.

Like Religious fanatics?
Financed and organized?

OK guys, im really uppset now, how come you have never invited ME to these dark cigarsmelling rooms where we discuss how to conquer the world? Its not very fair, you cant be more atheistic then me, why dont I have a members card?

McCulloch?
Cephus?

Its bloody unfair i tell you. And regarding that; The Illuminatis next door have a much better room then us guys, and they have a religious agenda, comeone, i want that room, its more "mystical" and says "secret organization" much louder then 112.....

Not that im ever invited, bastard McCulloch and Cephus.....

Atheism a "belief system" practiced by millions from Europe to America to China.

Why deny it?

Out of curiosity, how do you "practice" atheism? (The lack of belief in a God or gods)....


And most Chinese are Deists (or Daoist). As most Asians are. They prefer living a good life, believing (beause of poor education) that "someone" made the world, but thats it. The only countries i seen with real impactof religion is the US and Middle East, and some exceptions.... odd.

[harvey1]

Atheism is defined as philosophical term by you Harvey

Not by me, but by the field that studies philosophical beliefs. If you want to define atheism any way that pleases you, then go ahead. Just don't expect others (theists, agnostics, educated atheists) to believe you.

[Scrotum]

Atheism is defined as philosophical term by you Harvey

Not by me, but by the field that studies philosophical beliefs. If you want to define atheism any way that pleases you, then go ahead. Just don't expect others (theists, agnostics, educated atheists) to believe you.

You mean the entire Forum except you?

[harvey1]

You mean the entire Forum except you?

I think most people who are less vocal are willing to believe the credible sources that I provided. Of course there's always going to be a vocal few who seem to voice a large dissent when in fact they are just a few in number. Most people realize that academic departments all over the world are not misdefining the terms they debate. They also know that it's pretty easy for a few (atheist) laypeople to grab onto a definition that they don't properly understand and then try to use the web to re-define the term. The rule of education is that academia defines the terms used in their field, not the mob rule of people who have blogs.

[Scrotum]

And your "philosophers" are part of this academia?

[harvey1]

And your "philosophers" are part of this academia?

Check the websites of the leading 500 universities in the world and let me know if any of them don't have a philosophy department.

[Cephus]

Not by me, but by the field that studies philosophical beliefs. If you want to define atheism any way that pleases you, then go ahead. Just don't expect others (theists, agnostics, educated atheists) to believe you.

Actually, I think it's clear that no one here believes you. We've already shown you how ridiculous your desperate clinging to philosophy is and that we have no interest in playing along. Like I said, if you want to go hang out with the academics in their ivory towers who have absolutely no clue what happens in the real world, go ahead. This isn't the forum for it though.

[harvey1]

Actually, I think it's clear that no one here believes you.

You mean you believe most atheists here to be ignorant? That's your low estimation of the readers. Of course, we get a lot of militant atheists so perhaps you could be correct.

We've already shown you how ridiculous your desperate clinging to philosophy is and that we have no interest in playing along.

I realize that it's hard for you to imagine a world outside this forum, but the world does not care what militant atheists believe. The professional journals and the atheists who publish in those professional journals continue to only accept a standard philosophical definition of atheism.

Like I said, if you want to go hang out with the academics in their ivory towers who have absolutely no clue what happens in the real world, go ahead. This isn't the forum for it though.

If you want to re-define words used in science and philosophy, and think yourself intelligent for doing so, have fun.

[micatala]

Moderator Intervention

It seems we are getting a bit off-topic here. Cephus and harvey may just have to disagree on the definition of atheism and whether or not it is a philosophical concept.

Let's try to stick to the question raised in the OP.

[melikio]

Is there any difference between the Christian doctrine of "steadfastness" and "willfull ignorance"?

One thing to note, is that "faith" (Hebrews 11:1), is not the same as the "knowledge" we have of our physical world.

And I've never heard of the Christian doctrine of "steadfastness", but I have been taught that Christians are encouraged to live by faith, not merely what they know.

But that faith is a combination of reasonableness, hope, compassion and love; not the attitude of many who are arrogant and intrasigent, saying that all must accept The Bible as THEY interpret and adhere to it.

Each (Christian) person's faith should be representative the relationship they have with God, not measured by the "faith" they might attempt to force/induce upon others.

By the same token, I've seen some incredibly-dogmatic atheists (more and more), who get freaked out, just because other people actually believe in the Bible and/or other things-spiritual.

The reality is that different things are important or significant to different people; and they don't all learn/know the same things. And there are many people who confuse knowledge and wisdom; they aren't the same things. If I had to choose between a person of "knowledge" and a person of "wisdom", I'd surely choose the person with the wisdom. For typically, a wise person is more eager to learn, and a person who feels that they already "know" is more closed to learning.

There is no magic bullet that defines reality, and sets up the perfect partition/s between truth, reality and sprituality. Many have searched for those (and perhaps they exist in the minds of some)... but overall people seek, while learn that which they desire to learn and are capable of learning.

So yeah, some "people" are likely willfull in their ignorance (or seemingly so), but certainly not ALL people of any group under a "label" (i.e. "Christians") must be necessarily relegated to such.

-Mel-