Why does atheism have a suicide problem?

[EarthScienceguy]

Depression is a serious problem with in the greater atheist community and far too often, that depression has led to suicide. This is something many of my fellow atheists often dont like to admit, but it is true. I know a lot of atheists, myself included, would all like to believe that atheists are happier people than religious believers and in many ways we are. But we also have to accept the reality that in some very important ways we are not.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/atheism- ... ec613b812b

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 89 by Jagella]

How do you know his care was that good? Did he tell you, or is it your own estimation?

He told us both directly, and via his behavior and choice to stay at this particular facility (we visited many and let him choose). It was clear that he liked the care givers and over time developed a close relationship with one young lady in particular who became his primary helper. But what he also stated, regularly, was that the physical condition the disease placed him in made his day-to-day life miserable. His description was "worse than prison", even though he'd never been in prison so that was just a clear metaphor for how he felt being trapped in a nonfunctioning body and being 100% dependent on other people to do virtually every function a healthy human can do for themselves (including the less pleasant ones that don't need a description).

It does seem that in at least some cases people are less likely to want to die or commit suicide if they have religious beliefs.

I agree. I'm the only atheist in my extended family that I know of, and the rest all believe in an afterlife and that suicide denies heaven. So for that reason they would not want to end their lives other than via natural means.

How do you know what you would do in a situation you've never been in?

Because I've experienced, via my father's communication over a period of many years, what life is like for someone in that situation. This disease ate away at him for 16 years, and the first 12-13 did not completely stop him from living independently, or with minor assistance, despite the progressive loss of functions. But at a certain point it becomes debilitating, and progresses until the person is literally unable to do anything but think, breathe, and talk. Being unable to feed myself, or use my hands at all, walk, deal with bathroom situations, roll the wheel chair I'm stuck in just to change the view, eat what I want when I want, change the TV channel, etc. is a miserable way to exist, and I have a plan if I do get into a situation where that condition is inevitable and with no hope of avoiding it. And it has no dependence on laws for or against it as long as I'm still physically able to execute that plan (no pun intended).

[Trismegistus]

Why do faith based religions have a murder problem?

[Jagella]

He told us both directly, and via his behavior and choice to stay at this particular facility (we visited many and let him choose). It was clear that he liked the care givers and over time developed a close relationship with one young lady in particular who became his primary helper.

His experience sounds like my Dad's experience when he was in the nursing home. He was definitely cleaner than when he had still been at home. He also told me that he didn't mind it at that facility and was fond of some of the women who worked with him there.

His experience didn't last, however. Toward the end of his life he began to complain a lot about the conditions at the home not the least of which was abuse from some of the workers there. He described it as a prison, and he wanted to leave.

So what's the moral of this story? As far as "care" is concerned, good care is available, and some health-care workers are very good and do their jobs respecting those they are in charge of. Sadly, though, other workers are not so good and can be abusive. If you are stuck in a facility, you better hope you're lucky!

But what he also stated, regularly, was that the physical condition the disease placed him in made his day-to-day life miserable. His description was "worse than prison", even though he'd never been in prison so that was just a clear metaphor for how he felt being trapped in a nonfunctioning body and being 100% dependent on other people to do virtually every function a healthy human can do for themselves (including the less pleasant ones that don't need a description).

Many people do adapt in time to apparently adverse circumstances. I've known many people who live with all kinds of disabilities, illness, and pain, yet they manage to live reasonably good lives.

Because I've experienced, via my father's communication over a period of many years, what life is like for someone in that situation. This disease ate away at him for 16 years, and the first 12-13 did not completely stop him from living independently, or with minor assistance, despite the progressive loss of functions. But at a certain point it becomes debilitating, and progresses until the person is literally unable to do anything but think, breathe, and talk. Being unable to feed myself, or use my hands at all, walk, deal with bathroom situations, roll the wheel chair I'm stuck in just to change the view, eat what I want when I want, change the TV channel, etc. is a miserable way to exist, and I have a plan if I do get into a situation where that condition is inevitable and with no hope of avoiding it. And it has no dependence on laws for or against it as long as I'm still physically able to execute that plan (no pun intended).

OK, then you've never been in that kind of situation--you cannot "experience" what another person went through. It's easy to project our feelings onto other people.

My assessment of such situations is obviously different from your own. Although any kind of "disability" can be limiting and difficult to live with, I try not to judge another person's worth or the worth of that person's life based on what I see. I leave it to that person to judge her or his own situation, and that would include she or he wanting to die. If I reasonably could I would help her or him adapt to the disability and any other difficulties. As I see it, we should respect and value people as human beings, and the worst we can do is to tell them that they are worthless and would be better off dead.

[Bust Nak]

I try not to judge another person's worth or the worth of that person's life based on what I see. I leave it to that person to judge her or his own situation, and that would include she or he wanting to die.

So why do you want to limit their options when it comes to suicide?

[Jagella]

I try not to judge another person's worth or the worth of that person's life based on what I see. I leave it to that person to judge her or his own situation, and that would include she or he wanting to die.

So why do you want to limit their options when it comes to suicide?

Euthanasia proponents are always preaching "choice," as if we let people do whatever they choose to do. I say that at the very least, let's make darned sure that the person doing the choosing is the suffering person who presumably wants to die rather than some family member or other third party who finds the suffering person to be too loathsome, bothersome or expensive to be kept alive.

Can we at least agree on that much? Should we make sure that the "options" are the suffering person's options rather than somebody else who may not have their best interests in mind?

By the way, I just watched a segment of the CBS evening news featuring Alex Trebek. As you may know he has stage four pancreatic cancer. He said that he has made it through one year of his cancer, and he has experienced pain and fear because of his illness. Would you have Alex Trebek take his own life if he chose to?

[youtube][/youtube]

[Willum]

Did no one read the article?!

It says atheists have a higher suicide rate because they have just realized the God they have been worshiping their entire life has been imaginary, and are bereft of the imaginary friend and rules that have been guiding them all their deluded lives.

No wonder.

Newly minted atheists have the issue, not "atheists," in general.

Why do you think theists fight the realization that God is imaginary so hard?
The reality threatens their very soul.

[Bust Nak]

I say that at the very least, let's make darned sure that the person doing the choosing is the suffering person who presumably wants to die rather than some family member or other third party who finds the suffering person to be too loathsome, bothersome or expensive to be kept alive.

Can we at least agree on that much?

When has that even been in question? Of course we can agree on that.

Should we make sure that the "options" are the suffering person's options rather than somebody else who may not have their best interests in mind?

Yes.

Would you have Alex Trebek take his own life if he chose to?

Of course, after making doubly sure that it is his informed choice, as per your demand above.

I've answered your questions, now can you answer mine? Why do you want to limit their options when it comes to suicide re: disapproval of legalised euthanasia, given that you said you would leave it up to the subjects to judge if they want to die or not?

[Grove]

I don't think suicide among atheists is because of the realisation that what they have believed in is imaginary. It's more of realisation that there is nothing to live for. Especially if they are struggling in life. Why wait? Why suffer?

[Clownboat]

I don't think suicide among atheists is because of the realisation that what they have believed in is imaginary.

Atheists lack belief (in gods specifically), therefore your claim about what they believe in being imaginary is nonsensical.

Something for you to consider: Presumably, you believe that all god concepts are imaginary... less one god concept. You actually have a lot more in common with atheists then you think. They just take it one god further than yourself.

It's more of realisation that there is nothing to live for.

Another silly statement if you ask me and very telling that you don't discuss much with atheists. Living for your family, kids or community is certainly something to live for and what's more, these things are not imaginary unlike all the gods, right? Sorry, all the gods less one.

Especially if they are struggling in life. Why wait? Why suffer?

See family, kids and community. The gods are not needed in order to have something to live for.

The gods seem to be nothing more than human inventions that provides answers to the unknowns.
- What happens when we die?
- Why are we here?
- Will I ever see my dead loved ones again?
See the gods and see religions and note the differing provide answers that are provided. Pick a religion and apply faith is all that is required. You can even pretend that you are living your life for this god, thus imagined purpose is supplied.

Anything you disagree with?

[Purple Knight]

For every sad truth, you can just believe a lie and be happier.

Arguably in the modern padded-room world, where safety is king and the biggest threat that's sort of on the scale of don't just ignore it... is obesity, you really should just believe lies.