Can evidence lead to belief in god(s)?

[Argenta]

Hello everyone. I’m Argenta and this is my first post.

I stopped believing in deities before I was old enough to buy cigarettes but I have ever since wondered why so many smart people do sincerely believe in one god or another. I have considered the evidence theists present to support their beliefs but have only been able to conclude there is no evidence. None at all. I have searched for the arguments theists present to justify their beliefs and found fallacies in them all.

Maybe I’ve missed something.

So my proposition for debate is that belief in gods serves to satisfy emotional needs and apologetics serve to post-rationalise such beliefs. Am I right or can any theists point to the evidence or arguments that genuinely converted them to belief in god(s)?

Argenta

[EduChris]

...can any theists point to the evidence or arguments that genuinely converted them to belief in god(s)?...

Hello and welcome.

I don't think evidence can produce belief, but in some cases it can eliminate certain obstacles to belief.

To a large exent, "evidence" will be accepted or not depending on the preconceptions you start with. There are philosophical arguments that, to me at least, tip the scales in favor of the God hypothesis--but philosophical arguments are not accessible to everyone equally, and you can always find experts on either side who come to different conclusions based on their differing presuppositions.

Anthony Flew was a highly regarded atheist intellectual who decided a few years back that all of his years of searching and exploring did point to some sort of deity. Flew isn't ready to adopt any particular religion, but he still believes the evidence points slightly toward the God hypothesis.

[LiamOS]

¡Bienvenido!

After reading over this, it reads somewhat pro-Theistic, so I'll just clarify that I am not in fact a Theist.
Also, I define Deity very, very loosely.

I stopped believing in deities before I was old enough to buy cigarettes but I have ever since wondered why so many smart people do sincerely believe in one god or another.

Likewise I don't see why one might choose a certain Deity over another, but there are some reasonable reasons to assume the existence of a Deity depending on your positions on logic and the nature of the universe.

I have considered the evidence theists present to support their beliefs but have only been able to conclude there is no evidence.

I am in agreement here.

In a more general sense, though, I don't think there can be evidence for or against a Deity until such a Deity is adequately defined.

I have searched for the arguments theists present to justify their beliefs and found fallacies in them all.

Not all are fallacious unless you would consider arriving at a conclusion via inductive reasoning unjustified.

So my proposition for debate is that belief in gods serves to satisfy emotional needs and apologetics serve to post-rationalise such beliefs. Am I right or can any theists point to the evidence or arguments that genuinely converted them to belief in god(s)?

While this is certainly true some of the time, I don't think that the positing of a Deity is necessarily for emotional reasons. Many people argue that a Deity is a simpler explanation and a more plausible one.
By and large, I think it would the superimposition of emotions and other human-like characteristics upon a Deity that serves emotional need.

[EduChris]

...Maybe I’ve missed something...

Your website, www.gift-lists.com, seems to be missing something. What's up with that?

[LiamOS]

I guess that's what you're getting for Christmas.

[EduChris]

I guess that's what you're getting for Christmas.

That website could be mistaken for a spam job, I think...

[Zzyzx]

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Hi Argenta,

Welcome to the Forum. You started with a good post.

I stopped believing in deities before I was old enough to buy cigarettes but I have ever since wondered why so many smart people do sincerely believe in one god or another.

When people, even smart people, are taught from birth and all through childhood (before judgment and discernment have developed) that "god" made them and influences human lives (and "afterlives"), they often (usually?) continue to believe that into adulthood.

A small percentage of people begin questioning religious tales during childhood, as you did, and cease believing in invisible, undetectable, supernatural beings by adulthood.

I have considered the evidence theists present to support their beliefs but have only been able to conclude there is no evidence. None at all. I have searched for the arguments theists present to justify their beliefs and found fallacies in them all.

You are exactly right -- and can confirm that by reading the various threads in this sub-forum. What IS offered are testimonials, conjecture, opinion, and tales written by anonymous religious promoters.

Notice, however, that there are several Theist members who indicate very well reasoned beliefs that do NOT attempt to claim special knowledge of "god" and do NOT regard bible supernatural tales as truthful (or even important). Their concept of "god" is very different from that of the Fundamentalists / Biblicists / Literalists who proclaim that they KNOW TRUTH and that their favored religious promotional literature is literally true (without ability to substantiate the claims or the tales).

Maybe I’ve missed something.

You haven't "missed" any evidence because there is simply NOT any (other than the testimonials, conjecture, opinion and ancient unverifiable tales).

So my proposition for debate is that belief in gods serves to satisfy emotional needs and apologetics serve to post-rationalise such beliefs.

"Post rationalize" is an excellent descriptive term -- form the conclusion first, then go looking for evidence that it is right.

Am I right or can any theists point to the evidence or arguments that genuinely converted them to belief in god(s)?

Let's see if any Theists do so.

[Argenta]

Hi EduChis

I don't think evidence can produce belief, but in some cases it can eliminate certain obstacles to belief.

If I understand you correctly, you are supporting my hypothesis. If evidence can’t produce belief then something else does...

To a large exent, "evidence" will be accepted or not depending on the preconceptions you start with. There are philosophical arguments that, to me at least, tip the scales in favor of the God hypothesis--but philosophical arguments are not accessible to everyone equally, and you can always find experts on either side who come to different conclusions based on their differing presuppositions.

Thanks for this link but to relate it to my question, was Godel's Ontological Theorem the tipping point that convinced you there must be a god (assuming you are a theist)?

Argenta

[Argenta]

Hi AkiThePirate (great name!)

Of course, I agree, we can’t have a sensible debate about the existence of a god until those who propose the god define it. Like you, I find that the arguments theists propose to support their belief, usually fail to provide any support for their own preferred deity.

Not all are fallacious unless you would consider arriving at a conclusion via inductive reasoning unjustified.

Perhaps you could offer an example?

I don't think that the positing of a Deity is necessarily for emotional reasons. Many people argue that a Deity is a simpler explanation and a more plausible one.

They do and, again, it depends on how they define their deity… But if they are defining an multi-omni deity who created the entire universe and exists outside of time then their explanation is hardly simple! In any case if we do not know what caused or preceded the big bang how could they possibly say their explanation is simpler or more pausible?

Argenta

[Argenta]

...Maybe I’ve missed something...

Your website, www.gift-lists.com, seems to be missing something. What's up with that?

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

Argenta