What is atheism?

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De Maria
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What is atheism?

Post #1

Post by De Maria »

Definitions of atheist on the Web:

someone who denies the existence of god
related to or characterized by or given to atheism; "atheist leanings"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn]

atheism - the doctrine or belief that there is no God
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

atheistic - rejecting any belief in gods
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

One who rejects or is ignorant of theism.
www.jabcreations.com/philosophy/philoso ... itions.php

As used by most self-claimed atheists in means lack of belief in an organized religion. In the dictionary, an atheist is someone who do not believe in a God. ...
stobie.home.sprynet.com/work/oxymorons.htm

An individual who rejects the notion of a supreme being that exists outside of the abilities of modern science to either prove or disprove.
jewishscientist.wordpress.com/definitions/

atheism - A belief that there are no gods. Greek "a-theos": without-god. [see the 'Atheism' page for complete information]
www.reasoned.org/glossary.htm


In a debate with FT, the exchange went as follows:
Filthy Tugboat wrote:


What beliefs are you referring to?
De Maria wrote: You call yourself an atheist.
Definitions of atheist on the Web:

someone who denies the existence of god
related to or characterized by or given to atheism; "atheist leanings"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Atheist is defined as someone who denies the existence of God.
Filthy Tugboat wrote:That is an anti-theist, not an atheist. An atheist is someone who says that there is insufficient evidence for a god.
Apparently atheists have become aware that there is no way they can prove their belief with objective evidence, so they have decided to blur the line between atheism and agnosticism:

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic

What say you?

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Post #2

Post by De Maria »

Question directly for Filthy Tugboat:

Do you deny the existence of God? Yes or no?

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Post #3

Post by Lux »

I have to be honest, I find it less than tasteful when people try to tell another group of people what they are and are not. I don't tell certain Christians that they're not real Christians, whether or not I find their interpretation of the Bible logical.

Now that I've given my personal opinion, let's move onto the facts:

Atheism is divided into two major categories. The first is the one you regard as Atheism, which is known as Strong/Positive atheism. This is the belief that there is/are no God(s).

The second is known as Weak/Negative/Agnostic atheism, the lack of belief in God(s). This is widely regarded as a form of atheism. See here.

The distinction between an agnostic and a weak atheist is that the atheist will say that in the absence of evidence/sufficient evidence/convincing evidence, they don't believe in a God (which is not to say we believe that god doesn't exist), whereas a pure agnostic would say they don't know whether or not god exists, and don't lean either way.

As a side note, theists can be agnostics too, you know... any theist that doesn't claim to KNOW whether God exists or not but does believe there is at least one god is an agnostic theist.
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Post #4

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

De Maria

Atheism is not a belief, it is a LACK of belief. For example, if you state: "There is no Santa Claus;" does that mean you have acquired some power of infinite knowledge to "know" things to the exclusion of all possible error? NO! Being human, you are as fully fallible as the rest of us. Still, you (presumably) have reached the conclusion that there is no Santa Claus for reasons which make complete sense to you. You doubt that there is a Santa Claus. Atheists doubt the existence of God. We are without theology.

sarabellum

my thoughts...

Post #5

Post by sarabellum »

"Apparently atheists have become aware that there is no way they can prove their belief with objective evidence, so they have decided to blur the line between atheism and agnosticism:...)

I missed this memo, maybe I'm on and old mailing list....
From this day forward I will do my part in "operation blur". :D

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Post #6

Post by TheParticlePerson »

Is this another attempt to try to get atheists to admit that they believe there are no gods, so that theists can all shout: "Ah ha! That's a position of faith!"?

It gets rather tiring, to be honest.

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Post #7

Post by De Maria »

Lux wrote:I have to be honest, I find it less than tasteful when people try to tell another group of people what they are and are not.
He called himself an atheist. I quoted his words.
I don't tell certain Christians that they're not real Christians, whether or not I find their interpretation of the Bible logical.
I didn't characterize Filthy Tugboat as an atheist. He did so himself. I accepted his testimony. Now I want to know who agrees whether atheists deny the existence of God or not?
Now that I've given my personal opinion, let's move onto the facts:

Atheism is divided into two major categories. The first is the one you regard as Atheism, which is known as Strong/Positive atheism. This is the belief that there is/are no God(s).
Correct.
The second is known as Weak/Negative/Agnostic atheism, the lack of belief in God(s). This is widely regarded as a form of atheism. See here.

The distinction between an agnostic and a weak atheist is that the atheist will say that in the absence of evidence/sufficient evidence/convincing evidence, they don't believe in a God (which is not to say we believe that god doesn't exist),
Well, yeah. That is precisely what that means. You don't believe there is enough evidence to prove that God exists, therefore you deny that God exists.

Simple as that.

And that is a belief. A conviction which Filthy Tugboat and many defend continually. So, although agnostic atheists try to confuse the issues by standing squarely on the fence, they jump down off that fence to attack anyone who says they believe in God based upon their own interpretation of the evidence.
whereas a pure agnostic would say they don't know whether or not god exists, and don't lean either way.
That seems to prove me correct. These atheist are blurring the line between agnosticism and atheism because they know they can't prove their belief.

They deny the existence of God based upon what they deem to be the evidence and then retreat to agnosticism when confronted to prove their position.
As a side note, theists can be agnostics too, you know... any theist that doesn't claim to KNOW whether God exists or not but does believe there is at least one god is an agnostic theist.
By capitalizing God, do you mean to signify the Judeo Christian God? Because any theist who believes in another type of god is simply a theist. Not an agnostic. A person who calls himself a theist believes in the existence of a god no matter which god that might be.

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Post #8

Post by De Maria »

Tired of the Nonsense wrote:De Maria

Atheism is not a belief, it is a LACK of belief.
You're talking to a former atheist. As an atheist, I knew that God did not exist. I denied the existence of any deity.
For example, if you state: "There is no Santa Claus;" does that mean you have acquired some power of infinite knowledge to "know" things to the exclusion of all possible error? NO! Being human, you are as fully fallible as the rest of us. Still, you (presumably) have reached the conclusion that there is no Santa Claus for reasons which make complete sense to you. You doubt that there is a Santa Claus. Atheists doubt the existence of God. We are without theology.
Atheists deny the existence of God.

Agnostics doubt the existence of God.

When asked whether God exists, Agnostics answer, "I don't know. But I doubt it."
Atheists will answer simply, "No!"

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Re: What is atheism?

Post #9

Post by McCulloch »

Check your sources:
[row][url=http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=atheism]Princeton WordNet[/url]: Atheism Noun[list][*]S: (n) atheism, godlessness (the doctrine or belief that there is no God)[*]S: (n) atheism (a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods) [/list]Note that De Maria ignored the second definition. [row][url=http://www.jabcreations.com/]Jab Creations is the homepage of John A. Bilicki III, a Professional Web Designer and OOP PHP Web Developer.[/url] Why would anyone go to a professional web designer for authoritative definitions for philosophical terms? [row][url=http://stobie.home.sprynet.com/work/oxymorons.htm]Stobie[/url] the complete definition from this site is [list]Atheist As used by most self-claimed atheists in means lack of belief in an organized religion. In the dictionary, an atheist is someone who do not believe in a God. Most self-claimed atheists follow the god of Hedonism or personal power (i.e. they are their god), so they do not lack a religion, and usually speak out only to force their religion, typically Hedonism, on others. Better names would be Hedonist or Personal Power Seeker. [/list]But it you look just one entry up: [list]American Civil Liberties Union This organization (ACLU for short) fights legal battles on behalf of the leftist and Hedonist agenda. It is not about freedom. The ACLU opposes religous rights except those of Atheists, civil rights of some people, and human rights of some people. They are not about liberties. A better name would be Hedonist and Liberal Legal Advocates. An alternate name could be (historical) All Communist Lawyers Union or (present) Anti-Christian Lawyer's Union. [/list]I think that it is safe to say that this source might be a little biased. [row][url=http://jewishscientist.wordpress.com]JewishScientist[/url] - one does have to wonder why someone would seek English word definitions from a Jew with a Ph.D. student in Biology with a B.A. in Mathematics who admires Hasidic philosophy and identifies with the Chabad-Lubavitch movement. [row][url=www.reasoned.org/glossary.htm]Reasoned.Org[/url] -- another single person's non-authoritative opinion.
Might I suggest some better sources:
  • Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy , maintained by Stanford University, Stanford, CA, is a good academic source for philosophical terms.

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/
  • Wikipedia The benefit here is that there are a wide range of contributors. If something gets in that is incomplete or wildly biased, someone is likely to correct it. Also, many entries are footnoted and referenced for further information.

    Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
  • Dictonary.Com - This is a survey of definitions published in real dictionaries.
    For example,
    a·the·ism    [ey-thee-iz-uhm]
    –noun
    1. the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
    2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
    Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.
De Maria asks, "Do you deny the existence of God? Yes or no?"

The people who claim that there is a god, have not provided sufficient evidence or convincing reasons to support such a claim, therefore, I provisionally conclude that there does not exist a god. However, I am open to argument and reason and will revise my view when such are provided.

Furthermore, it is my view that a coherent definition of God must be presented before the question of the existence of god can be meaningfully discussed. If such a definition is unfalsifiable, then the question of the existence of God is, to me, meaningless.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Re: my thoughts...

Post #10

Post by De Maria »

sarabellum wrote:"Apparently atheists have become aware that there is no way they can prove their belief with objective evidence, so they have decided to blur the line between atheism and agnosticism:...)

I missed this memo, maybe I'm on and old mailing list....
From this day forward I will do my part in "operation blur". :D
Do you deny the existence of God?

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