The Bible: Gods Word or Mans?

[Alter2Ego]

[font=Verdana]There are various types of religions in existence with their own sacred books called bibles. As a result, many people believe that all religions are valid and that they are simply different roads to the same place. Along that line, many feel that no type of religion can lay claim to which type of religious bible is really the word of God. For instance, Muslims claim the Koran is the correct bible, while Christians claim the Judeo-Christian Bible is the right one.

The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God. No other religious book has been able to prove such. For instance, hundreds of Bible prophesies have been fulfilled, some written centuries before the fulfillment of the prophesied events. Secular history and archeology bears this out. In addition, Bible writers were privy to information that was not discovered by scientists and explorers until centuries later. Below are two such examples.

Example #1: For a period of time in history, humans thought the earth was flat and that if one sailed too far out to sea, one was likely to sail off the earth. By the 15th Century when Christopher Columbus claimed he discovered the new world, most Europeans correctly theorized that the earth is a circle or sphere. However, it was not until after Columbus literally sailed around the globe that this theory was proven as fact. More than 2,000 years before Christopher Columbus sailed around the globe, the prophet Isaiah did not merely theorize but stated that the earth is a circle. Isaiah was inspired by God to write:

"{22} There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gaze, who spread them out like a tent in which to dwell, {28} Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary. There is no searching out of his understanding." (Isaiah 40:22 and 28)

SIDE NOTE: Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)


Example #2: Prior to the 17th century, none of the best scientific minds could explain what causes the earth to be positioned in a stable orbit. Then in 1687, Isaac Newton published his theory that gravitational forces are the explanation behind the earth's stability. (Gravity is also the reason why humans can move around without fear of toppling off the earth into space.) More than 3,000 years before Newton's existence, under divine inspiration Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing (indicating gravity), as follows:

"He [God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing;..." (Job 26:7)


DEBATE QUESTIONS:
1. How could Isaiah have known that the earth is circular, considering that the writing of the book of Isaiah was completed in 732 B.C.E. and Christopher Columbus did not make his first journey across the Atlantic until 1492 AD/CE or 2,224 years AFTER Isaiah wrote that the earth is a circle?
http://www.history.com/topics/christopher-columbus


2. How did Job know that the earth hangs upon nothing--indicating gravity--considering that the book of Job was completed in 1473 B.C.E. and it wasn't until 1687 AD/CE that Isaac Newton published his theory about gravitational forces--3,160 years AFTER Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing?
http://inventors.about.com/library/i...s/blnewton.htm


3. Where did Isaiah and Moses get this info?[/font]

[Haven]

Alter2Ego, welcome to the forum! Glad to have you here!

Now on to your arguments:

There are various types of religions in existence with their own sacred books called bibles.

Actually, Christianity is the only religion that has a sacred book known as a "bible."

As a result, many people believe that all religions are valid and that they are simply different roads to the same place.

Some people believe that. Many others believe no religions are true, and that all are simply man-made constructs.

Also, even if the Bible is 100 percent true, that still would not establish that all other religions are false -- that claim must be supported independently.

Along that line, many feel that no type of religion can lay claim to which type of religious bible is really the word of God. For instance, Muslims claim the Koran is the correct bible, while Christians claim the Judeo-Christian Bible is the right one.

I agree with this: no religion can claim their sacred text is really the word of God because God(s) almost certainly does (do) not exist.

Side note: there is no such thing as a "Judeo-Christian Bible." There is the Christian Bible, which includes the New Testament, and there is the Hebrew Bible, which includes the Tanakh (Old Testament). The Tanakh significantly differs from the Christian version of the Old Testament.

The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God.

Muslims claim the difference between the Qur'an and the Judeo-Christian Bible is that there is evidence that shows the Qur'an was inspired by Allah. Without empirical evidence (and I maintain Christians have none), there is no basis for followers of either religion to make such statements.

For instance, hundreds of Bible prophesies have been fulfilled, some written centuries before the fulfillment of the prophesied events.

"Prophecies" in the Bible fall into one of five categories:

(1) Written after the fact. It is easy to get a prediction right when you make it after the event you're predicting occurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... _the_event

(2) Simple predictions. If I predicted today that the United States will invade Iran, there is a high probability I will be right, even though I am certainly not inspired by any sort of god. Many of the ancient Biblical "war" prophecies fall into this category -- they predicted events with a very high likelihood of happening, and these events later happened. This does not prove the Christian god exists.

(3) Intentionally fulfilled prophecies. Some Biblical prophecies were intentionally fulfilled by later individuals who had intent to fulfill said prophecies. For example, according to the gospels, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey specifically to fulfill an Old Testament prophecy (the Bible even admits to this). The fact that someone can voluntarily choose to fulfill a prophecy in no way proves such prophecies are of divine origin.

(4) Vague / obvious prophecies. Many Biblical prophecies are so vague and/or obvious that ordinary, mundane events can be said to fulfill them. For example, Jesus' predictions of "earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars" came true because earthquakes, rumors of wars, and wars were, are, and always will be extremely common events. If I predict that it will snow in Minnesota next winter, there is almost a 100 percent chance such a prophecy will come true. Does that mean I am inspired by God?

(5) Unfulfilled prophecies. Many Biblical prophecies were never fulfilled. For example, Jesus claimed that "some of you will not taste death until you see the kingdom of God . . ." This obviously never happened.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies

In addition, Bible writers were privy to information that was not discovered by scientists and explorers until centuries later. Below are two such examples.

Example #1: For a period of time in history, humans thought the earth was flat and that if one sailed too far out to sea, one was likely to sail off the earth. By the 15th Century when Christopher Columbus claimed he discovered the new world, most Europeans correctly theorized that the earth is a circle or sphere. However, it was not until after Columbus literally sailed around the globe that this theory was proven as fact. More than 2,000 years before Christopher Columbus sailed around the globe, the prophet Isaiah did not merely theorize but stated that the earth is a circle. Isaiah was inspired by God to write: "{22} There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gaze, who spread them out like a tent in which to dwell, {28} Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary. There is no searching out of his understanding." (Isaiah 40:22 and 28)

SIDE NOTE: Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)

First of all, early Greek thinkers discovered the sphericity of the earth around 500 BCE, around the time when the book of Isaiah was written and over 2,000 years before Christopher Columbus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth

Secondly, the writer of the book of Isaiah said the earth was a "circle," which is not accurate. A circle is a two-dimensional object, while a sphere is a three-dimensional object. They are not the same thing. The unknown author of Isaiah wrote of a flat earth.

Example #2: Prior to the 17th century, none of the best scientific minds could explain what causes the earth to be positioned in a stable orbit. Then in 1687, Isaac Newton published his theory that gravitational forces are the explanation behind the earth's stability. (Gravity is also the reason why humans can move around without fear of toppling off the earth into space.) More than 3,000 years before Newton's existence, under divine inspiration Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing (indicating gravity), as follows:

"He [God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing;..." (Job 26:7)

Gravity is not "nothing," but something. Additionally, the Old Testament also speaks of the earth resting on pillars, which is obviously incorrect. Why cherry pick one passage from Job (which was not written by Moses, who likely never existed) and ignore others (Job 9:6) that speak of the earth resting on "pillars" or "foundations?"

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

There are various types of religions in existence with their own sacred books called bibles.

Actually, Christianity is the only religion that has a sacred book known as a "bible."

Not strictly true. LaVeyan Satanism, for example, has the Satanic Bible. But it is generally a Christian term.

[Thatguy]

[font=Verdana]
DEBATE QUESTIONS:
1. How could Isaiah have known that the earth is circular, considering that the writing of the book of Isaiah was completed in 732 B.C.E. and Christopher Columbus did not make his first journey across the Atlantic until 1492 AD/CE or 2,224 years AFTER Isaiah wrote that the earth is a circle?[/color]
http://www.history.com/topics/christopher-columbus

3. Where did Isaiah and Moses get this info?[/font]

The authors, whoever they were, were very much the products of their times. The Biblical structure of the Universe was borrowed from the other cultures in the region. The Babylonians viewed the universe as a circle in the sense of a disk with waters under the earth and fixed domes over it, firmaments, in which stars were set and through which rain poured.

Here's a discussion, for instance: http://www.religioustolerance.org/cosmo_bibl1.htm

Those who know the Hebrew say, I've read, that the reference to a found earth referred to a flat earth, that there was a different word that would have been used for orb. But about the only word in Hebrew I know is tent. Which is actually relevant since the Bible also talks of such things as being able to place a tentlike structure over the Earth. That fits with a flat, not an orb shaped, planet. It also has images such as a tree so tall you could see the whole Earth from its top. No matter how tall, that trick won't work for an orb.

As to Columbus, the story is quite different. He didn't, for instance, circumnavigate. All educated people knew the Earth was round at the time. The consensus was that the Earth was a particular size. Columbus bucked conventional wisdom. He had the Secret of the Earth's Size that the Educated Elite Don't Want You to Know. He argued that the Earth was smaller than the egghead professors said. Therefore, India wasn't nearly as far away and could be reached by sailing around the world in the other direction. It turns out the conventional wisdom was right, Columbus was wrong. He grossly underestimated the circumference of the globe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

The above comment was right: The Bible spoke in terms of beliefs at the time it was written. After those ideas were proved wrong, the Bible got reinterpreted to fit the new findings. Bits and pieces were looked at in a new light and stretched to fit the facts. Anything looks like a great prediction if you work hard enough to reconcile it with what later came to pass. Sometimes believers have a hard time doing this, so they reject the scientific facts that disagree with their narrow. literalist Biblical interpretation. That's a shame.

[Alter2Ego]

Alter2Ego, welcome to the forum! Glad to have you here!

Now on to your arguments:

There are various types of religions in existence with their own sacred books called bibles.

Actually, Christianity is the only religion that has a sacred book known as a "bible."

As a result, many people believe that all religions are valid and that they are simply different roads to the same place.

Some people believe that. Many others believe no religions are true, and that all are simply man-made constructs.

Also, even if the Bible is 100 percent true, that still would not establish that all other religions are false -- that claim must be supported independently.

Along that line, many feel that no type of religion can lay claim to which type of religious bible is really the word of God. For instance, Muslims claim the Koran is the correct bible, while Christians claim the Judeo-Christian Bible is the right one.

I agree with this: no religion can claim their sacred text is really the word of God because God(s) almost certainly does (do) not exist.

Side note: there is no such thing as a "Judeo-Christian Bible." There is the Christian Bible, which includes the New Testament, and there is the Hebrew Bible, which includes the Tanakh (Old Testament). The Tanakh significantly differs from the Christian version of the Old Testament.

ALTER2EGO QUOTE: The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God.

Muslims claim the difference between the Qur'an and the Judeo-Christian Bible is that there is evidence that shows the Qur'an was inspired by Allah. Without empirical evidence (and I maintain Christians have none), there is no basis for followers of either religion to make such statements.

[font=Verdana]Thanks for the welcome, Haven. I appreciate that. I will address your arguments in three separate posts since you raised several issues that require detailed responses. Below is the first set of responses.

[center]PART 1 of 3[/center]

HAVEN:
Actually, Christianity is the only religion that has a sacred book known as a "bible."

ALTER2EGO:
The definition of the word "bible" is as follows according to Webster's New World College Dictionary and American Heritage Dictionary, respectively:

"any collection or book of writings sacred to a religion: the Koran is the Muslim Bible"

"A book or collection of writings constituting the sacred text of a religion."
http://www.yourdictionary.com/bible


[center]********************[/center]
HAVEN:
Also, even if the Bible is 100 percent true, that still would not establish that all other religions are false -- that claim must be supported independently.

ALTER2EGO:
So if the Judeo-Christian Bible is 100% true and it condemns certain behaviors that are practiced by people of other religions, are you saying it doesn't matter to God if such ones are going directly against what he instructs in the Bible?

[center]********************[/center]
HAVEN:
Side note: there is no such thing as a "Judeo-Christian Bible." There is the Christian Bible, which includes the New Testament, and there is the Hebrew Bible, which includes the Tanakh (Old Testament). The Tanakh significantly differs from the Christian version of the Old Testament.

ALTER2EGO:
Below is the meaning of the term "Judeo-Christian," according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

"relating to both Judaism and Christianity"
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/searc ... -Christian [/font]

[Alter2Ego]

The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God.

Muslims claim the difference between the Qur'an and the Judeo-Christian Bible is that there is evidence that shows the Qur'an was inspired by Allah. Without empirical evidence (and I maintain Christians have none), there is no basis for followers of either religion to make such statements.

For instance, hundreds of Bible prophesies have been fulfilled, some written centuries before the fulfillment of the prophesied events.

"Prophecies" in the Bible fall into one of five categories:

(1) Written after the fact. It is easy to get a prediction right when you make it after the event you're predicting occurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... _the_event

(2) Simple predictions. If I predicted today that the United States will invade Iran, there is a high probability I will be right, even though I am certainly not inspired by any sort of god. Many of the ancient Biblical "war" prophecies fall into this category -- they predicted events with a very high likelihood of happening, and these events later happened. This does not prove the Christian god exists.

(3) Intentionally fulfilled prophecies. Some Biblical prophecies were intentionally fulfilled by later individuals who had intent to fulfill said prophecies. For example, according to the gospels, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey specifically to fulfill an Old Testament prophecy (the Bible even admits to this). The fact that someone can voluntarily choose to fulfill a prophecy in no way proves such prophecies are of divine origin.

(4) Vague / obvious prophecies. Many Biblical prophecies are so vague and/or obvious that ordinary, mundane events can be said to fulfill them. For example, Jesus' predictions of "earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars" came true because earthquakes, rumors of wars, and wars were, are, and always will be extremely common events. If I predict that it will snow in Minnesota next winter, there is almost a 100 percent chance such a prophecy will come true. Does that mean I am inspired by God?

(5) Unfulfilled prophecies. Many Biblical prophecies were never fulfilled. For example, Jesus claimed that "some of you will not taste death until you see the kingdom of God . . ." This obviously never happened.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies

[font=Verdana][center]PART 2 of 3[/center]
HAVEN:

"Prophecies" in the Bible fall into one of five categories:

(1) Written after the fact. It is easy to get a prediction right when you make it after the event you're predicting occurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... _the_event

ALTER2EGO:
For the benefit of this forum, do provide examples of prophesies that were "written after the fact."

HAVEN:

(2) Simple predictions. If I predicted today that the United States will invade Iran, there is a high probability I will be right, even though I am certainly not inspired by any sort of god. Many of the ancient Biblical "war" prophecies fall into this category -- they predicted events with a very high likelihood of happening, and these events later happened. This does not prove the Christian god exists.

ALTER2EGO:
For the benefit of this forum, do provide examples of Bible prophesies that fit into your description of events in which there was a "high probability" that the prophecy would be right.

HAVEN:

(3) Intentionally fulfilled prophecies. Some Biblical prophecies were intentionally fulfilled by later individuals who had intent to fulfill said prophecies. For example, according to the gospels, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey specifically to fulfill an Old Testament prophecy (the Bible even admits to this). The fact that someone can voluntarily choose to fulfill a prophecy in no way proves such prophecies are of divine origin.

ALTER2EGO:
You stated in your above quoted response that Jesus' riding a donkey is an example of a "deliberately fulfilled" Bible prophecy. Perhaps you can explain to the forum how Jesus knew the donkey (described as an "ass")--accompanied by a colt--was at the specific location where he instructed his disciples to get it from. Notice how two of Jesus' disciples describe the event.

"{1} Well, when they got close to Jerusalem and arrived at Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent forth two disciples, {2} saying to them: 'Be on your way into the village that is within sight of you, and you will AT ONCE find an ass tied, and A COLT with her; untie them and bring them to me. {7} And they brought the ass and its colt, and they put upon these their outer garments, and he seated himself upon them."
(Matthew 21:1, 2, 7)

"{1} Now when they were getting near to Jerusalem, to Bethphage and Bethany at the Mount of Olives, he dispatched two of his disciples {2} and told them: 'Go into the village that is within sight of you, and AS SOON AS you pass into it you will find a colt tied, on which NONE OF MANKIND has yet sat; loose it and bring it.' " (Mark 11:1-2) [Compare Luke 19:29-30]

QUESTIONS FOR HAVEN: Jesus had not even entered the village where the ass and its colt were tied. Yet, he knew that as soon as his disciples entered the village, not only would they find an ass tied, they would find a colt with it upon which no man had ever ridden. Who do you suppose arranged for that ass and its colt to be there waiting for Jesus? And how did Jesus know that the colt had never been ridden? Any suggestions?

HAVEN:

(4) Vague / obvious prophecies. Many Biblical prophecies are so vague and/or obvious that ordinary, mundane events can be said to fulfill them. For example, Jesus' predictions of "earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars" came true because earthquakes, rumors of wars, and wars were, are, and always will be extremely common events. If I predict that it will snow in Minnesota next winter, there is almost a 100 percent chance such a prophecy will come true. Does that mean I am inspired by God?

ALTER2EGO:
You said many Bible prophecies were vague and mundane events such as "earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars". Let's me quote the prophecy to which you are referring, after which I will comment on it before I ask you a couple questions.

"For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another." (Matthew 24:7)

COMMENTARY: What most people fail to realize is that Jesus wasn't referring to the everyday wars when he prophesied wars and earthquakes as a sign that the end of this system of things is approaching. He was talking about a different kind of war and abnormal occurrences of earthquakes. In terms of earthquakes, according to observers, earthquakes have increased in frequency over the last century than in previous centuries.
http://earth.webecs.co.uk/.

QUESTIONS FOR HAVEN: Were World War I and World War II mundane war events? And what's your take on the frequency and severity of earthquakes over the past 100 years?

HAVEN:

(5) Unfulfilled prophecies. Many Biblical prophecies were never fulfilled. For example, Jesus claimed that "some of you will not taste death until you see the kingdom of God . . ." This obviously never happened.

ALTER2EGO:
You said many Bible prophecies were never fulfilled by partially quoting the following single verse of scripture as an example of "many."

"Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

That promise was fulfilled several days after Jesus said it, when Peter, James and John accompanied Jesus into a "lofty mountain" where, while praying, Jesus was transfigured before them.

"{1} Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and John his brother along and brought them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. {2} And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light." (Matthew 17:1-2)[/font]

[Alter2Ego]

In addition, Bible writers were privy to information that was not discovered by scientists and explorers until centuries later. Below are two such examples.

Example #1: For a period of time in history, humans thought the earth was flat and that if one sailed too far out to sea, one was likely to sail off the earth. By the 15th Century when Christopher Columbus claimed he discovered the new world, most Europeans correctly theorized that the earth is a circle or sphere. However, it was not until after Columbus literally sailed around the globe that this theory was proven as fact. More than 2,000 years before Christopher Columbus sailed around the globe, the prophet Isaiah did not merely theorize but stated that the earth is a circle. Isaiah was inspired by God to write:

"{22} There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gaze, who spread them out like a tent in which to dwell, {28} Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary. There is no searching out of his understanding." (Isaiah 40:22 and 28)

SIDE NOTE: Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)

First of all, early Greek thinkers discovered the sphericity of the earth around 500 BCE, around the time when the book of Isaiah was written and over 2,000 years before Christopher Columbus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth

Secondly, the writer of the book of Isaiah said the earth was a "circle," which is not accurate. A circle is a two-dimensional object, while a sphere is a three-dimensional object. They are not the same thing. The unknown author of Isaiah wrote of a flat earth.

Example #2: Prior to the 17th century, none of the best scientific minds could explain what causes the earth to be positioned in a stable orbit. Then in 1687, Isaac Newton published his theory that gravitational forces are the explanation behind the earth's stability. (Gravity is also the reason why humans can move around without fear of toppling off the earth into space.) More than 3,000 years before Newton's existence, under divine inspiration Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing (indicating gravity), as follows:

"He [God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing;..." (Job 26:7)

Gravity is not "nothing," but something. Additionally, the Old Testament also speaks of the earth resting on pillars, which is obviously incorrect. Why cherry pick one passage from Job (which was not written by Moses, who likely never existed) and ignore others (Job 9:6) that speak of the earth resting on "pillars" or "foundations?"

[font=Verdana][center]PART 2 of 3[/center]
HAVEN:
First of all, early Greek thinkers discovered the sphericity of the earth around 500 BCE, around the time when the book of Isaiah was written and over 2,000 years before Christopher Columbus.

Secondly, the writer of the book of Isaiah said the earth was a "circle," which is not accurate. A circle is a two-dimensional object, while a sphere is a three-dimensional object. They are not the same thing. The unknown author of Isaiah wrote of a flat earth.

ALTER2EGO:
The book of Isaiah was written in 732 B.C.E. or 232 years BEFORE the date that you gave, when you said: "Greek thinkers discovered the sphericity of the earth around 500 BCE "

You say a circle is two-dimensional and that "The unknown author of Isaiah wrote of a flat earth." Apparently you overlooked the definitions of "circle" that I gave in my initial post when I said the following.

MY PREVIOUS QUOTE:

SIDE NOTE: Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)

Below are two online dictionaries which give the official definition of "circle".

Definition #4 on this website defines CIRCLE as ORB and SPHERE:
http://brainyquote.com/words/ci/circle144156.html

Definition #13 on this website defines CIRCLE as ORB and SPHERE:
http://www.definitions.net/definition/CIRCLE

[center]********************[/center]
HAVEN:
Gravity is not "nothing," but something. Additionally, the Old Testament also speaks of the earth resting on pillars, which is obviously incorrect. Why cherry pick one passage from Job (which was not written by Moses, who likely never existed) and ignore others (Job 9:6) that speak of the earth resting on "pillars" or "foundations?"

ALTER2EGO:
The expression "the earth hangs upon nothing" is in reference to how the earth appears when viewed from God's standpoint--from a position above the earth, from outer space. It appears to be floating with no visible sign of what's holding it up. This appearance of earth hanging upon nothing was confirmed by humans for the first time when man conquered space flight and was able to look down from a position above earth.

"He is making the earth go quaking from its place, so that its very pillars shudder." (Job 9:6)

I can't believe you are going to take a single verse of scripture and take it to mean that the earth is literally help up by pillars. That scripture is referencing the foundation of the earth in the sense that the earth is firmly established--rather than to literal pillars.[/font]

[Haven]

Thanks for the welcome, Haven. I appreciate that.

No probs.

The definition of the word "bible" is as follows according to Webster's New World College Dictionary and American Heritage Dictionary, respectively:

"any collection or book of writings sacred to a religion: the Koran is the Muslim Bible"

"A book or collection of writings constituting the sacred text of a religion."

It doesn't really matter what the dictionary definition of "bible" is, the fact still remains that no other religion (except Satanism, as F.D. said) has a sacred text actually called "the bible." Still, this issue is unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

So if the Judeo-Christian Bible is 100% true and it condemns certain behaviors that are practiced by people of other religions, are you saying it doesn't matter to God if such ones are going directly against what he instructs in the Bible?

For all we know, God could judge believers on how well they follow their given religion. Some, most, or all the claims of other religions, for example, Jainism, Islam, and Hinduism, could be true. The claim that "all other religions are false" is independent of the truth of Christianity, and must be supported with outside evidence.

[Shermana]

The word "Circle of the Earth" is a bad translation, it should be "Vault of the Earth" to refer to the Rakia/Firmament.

The word can and does mean "Circle", but like many words we can see it is used in proper context with other verses.

For instance,

Job 22:14
BIB: וְלֹ֣� יִרְ�ֶ֑ה וְח֥וּג שָ��מַ֗יִ� יִתְהַלָּֽךְ׃
NAS: And He walks on the vault of heaven.'
KJV: not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.
INT: cannot see the vault of heaven walks

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

SIDE NOTE: Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)

"Circle" is an English word. Isaiah was not written in English and does not contain the word "circle." It does contain this word:

ח֣וּג
ḥūḡ

Word Origin
from chug
Definition
vault, horizon
NASB Word Usage
circle (2), vault (1).

http://concordances.org/hebrew/2329.htm

Doesn't mean orb, doesn't mean sphere.