Polyatheist wrote:arian wrote:
So the story of the 13.75 billion year old history of the 'theory of evolution' started by Darwin is becoming far more convincing than the stories in the 5,000 year old Bible?
Come on now, cave paintings, assumptions, theories over the Bible?
Science proves a 'Creator', and anti-science, or sci-fi tries to disprove it with them guess-sos, and with them theories of what 'might of' happened billions upon billions of years ago that has NOTHING to do with science.
Science
1.
study of the physical world: the study of the physical world and its manifestations, especially by using systematic observation and experiment
Microsoft® Encarta®
... the rest is not science, but religion.
I would like to address this part of your post just to correct some of the information you have given. I have no idea what the point your making is nor am I really interested in debating it if this is the type of information I will receive in return.
Thank you Polyatheist, I would gladly rephrase my point. Don’t loose interest in someone just because their view is different than yours, you never know what you may learn from them. I have learned a great deal on this forum, so please let’s reason together.
Polyatheist wrote:The theory of evolution does not go back to the start of the universe,
You are so right my friend, the theory of evolution does not go back to the start of the universe, the ‘theory’ started in 1859 when Darwin wrote his book ‘On the Origin of Species’. So you see the ‘theory of evolution’ only goes back 153 years, not nearly enough to make ‘scientific’ claims of what happened 3.7 billion years ago (biological evolution) here on earth, and especially not 13.75 billion years ago when the tiny pin sized universe popped out of nothing.
Now if we had documentations of a Darwin back 3.7 billion years ago witnessing this evolution and taking samples of the algae in the primordial soup, then that would be real science. Darwin’s observations which he called ‘natural selection’ are assumptions and nothing more. They are sci-fi fairy tales gone-wild.
Look, today we have algae, single sell bacterium, tadpoles, lizards, monkeys and humans right? It is claimed that we all evolve at the same time, … right? Is this how it all started 3.7 billion years ago, from the beginning, with everything like we have now evolving at the same time? Well that would explain natural selection, but if algae was all there was at the beginning, the whole thing regarding this ‘theory of evolution’ falls apart now doesn’t it?
Another words when the algae first appeared in that primordial soup, were there tadpoles, lizards, monkeys and humans in that primordial soup evolving at the same time, or did it all start with the algae evolving legs, eyes and a brain to reason first?
Also, how could the theory of the big bang that created our planet not be a part of evolution?
So water accumulating on a rock called earth, which is claimed to have evolved from the big-bang has nothing to do with the ‘theory of evolution’? Isn’t that like saying; “The mother has nothing to do with the fetus growing (evolving) inside her womb�? Can you take the mother out of the equation when studying and making up theories of the development of a baby in her womb?
… never mind, of course we can. It is called ‘abortion’.
Polyatheist wrote:nothing in Darwin's theory or the improved theory talks about the start of the universe.
Have you ever questioned why that is? I can understand Darwin not mentioning it, but after all these years, after all the data collected and all them books written, hasn’t the question ever arisen? I am dumbfounded that no one ‘connected the dots’ yet? You know, … the universe was gas first, then it evolved stars and planets from which evolved water, algae, bacteria and monkeys. I see a connection!
Boy, I can just see the headlines when some well known great atheist evolution scientist connects the two; “Evolution Theorists have stumbled on a revolutionary idea that the ‘Theory of Evolution’ might be somehow connected to the ‘Big Bang theory’! The clue was right there before us all along … ‘big-bang to planet, … water’, (as in the primordial soup) to biological evolution�.
Polyatheist wrote:Second, Darwin's theories are not based on cave painting and assumptions as you have stated.
No, they are what you yourself called; ‘improved theory’, which they added on later to sell to the public in hopes of taking their mind off of God.
Polyatheist wrote:Darwin used his observations of similar species (under the same genus) having very different physical characteristics from island to island. These islands were separated by very small distances, yet the variety of finches and mockingbirds what astounding. This lead to the collection of mountains of evidence that has been collected to this day (and is still growing) that supports the theory of evolution.
Variety does not mean ‘evolution’. God loves variety, every leaf on every tree is different, every snowflake, every animal, every human, and even with the trillions of differences, snow is still snow, leafs on a tree are still leaves and animals are still animals as humans are humans.
Gen 1:20-22
20 Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens." 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
NKJV
Polyatheist wrote:Science does not prove a 'creator' if it did more scientists would be theists or agnostic instead of the overwhelming majority being Atheists.
Theism is the belief in god or gods, it is ‘religion’, and science is not supposed to be involved in religion, but in observing the physical world. Because theories like evolution and the BB were mixed in science, it has become a religion like any other.
You are confusing theories like evolution and the big-bang with science. Science is observing the physical world, not making up stories of where it might have come from, or who made it. As I said, that part comes from ‘religion’. Theories like evolution and the big-bang derived from theism which has created make-believe stories of god and gods other than our Creator. Atheism is the other side of the same coin, one side it’s theism, the other atheism.
One picks up a black meteor in the desert and says; “Hey, this rock came from God� and before you know it a religion is created and a billion people bow down before it and worship that rock.
Don’t laugh, because another looks at a rock and comes up with a theory that it came from nothing, from nowhere and for no reason, and writes books on it and you have 5 billion people worshiping the ‘theory’.
If a farmer one day found a Volkswagen Bug in his pineapple field, he wouldn’t claim it evolved from one of his pineapples now would he? But then again, I’m sure many would fall for that too.
Everything was created by somebody, the car, the clock, the monkey, man, rock, sun, the moon, … everything. How can you say; “This was created by smart people who engineered it all out first, machined it, painted it and here it is, but us humans, … well we just evolved from soup, the result of a hot rock cooling, add 3.7 billion years and wha-la, here we are?
Polyatheist wrote:Science proves what it can measure in the physical world, this in and of itself does not prove a creator.
As I keep saying, science does not involve itself in ‘who’ made it, but ‘how’ it is made and what it is made out of. The common sense that ‘someone’ had to design and create it should be obvious even to the most simple minded.
Polyatheist wrote:As to the origins of the universe, physics does have a few theories on the matter which contain more evidence then any biblical or other human theory. The most obvious is the big bang, which has several variations. This is one of those variations that has been found to be a working model of the start of the universe:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-yea ... puter.html
I read it, and I’m sure I could program a supercomputer to give me the answers that I WANT too. That is another human theory. Nine theories do not make one fact, unless I program it like that into the computer.
Come on, nine spacetime dimensions found when even the third one is an illusion? Please explain to me the ‘third dimension’. When we’re standing on a long stretch of highway, we see the road coming to a point before us, right? Is that dimension real? Does things shrink with distance?
Our sun is 1,392,000km in diameter, yet we see it as about ten inches in diameter, which one is correct? Or did the sun shrink with distance? You see, our third dimension is an illusion.
Time is an illusion too, and if you say the universe always existed (since you cannot say it popped out of nowhere and nothing) then as I believe Stephen Hawking said; “something must have always existed�. If something always existed, it is ‘eternal’, and time cannot reside in eternity, just as something the size of a pinhead cannot reside in ‘nothing’, nor can it be infinite. Infinity does not ‘expand’ either, it is ‘infinite’.
The laws of physics are already within the universe, and this is the reason we can observe these laws.
Studying these observable laws did not somehow give us the ability to ‘create’ the universe (which the BB theory tries to do).
The universe, to our most advanced observations so far is ‘infinite’. Now to claim it was just a finite tiny pin-sized universe 13.75 billion years ago is a man-made theory based on human pride which leads to belief in our own arrogance, and then we encourage others to hypothesize towards this goal at any means, even threat of their job, or life.
Who or what caused its existence and from where it all came from, what size it was, or that it was a string of gravity is just man made religious stories. My simple mind tells me that if all the physical creation has laws governing it, it has had to have a Creator and a Lawgiver, and the Bible explains this and much more in great detail.
Polyatheist wrote:You might need to do a bit of brushing up on your physics but the mathematical proof is sound.
Mathematical proof, which one? None was presented.
Was it the number nine as in the nine dimensions? I can do some ‘sound mathematical proof’ for that too:
5+4=9
6+3=9
2+7=9
8+1=9, … hey, nine must be the answer! Look, I have given mathematical proof, they all lead to nine.
Yes, … I have been brushing up on my physics, especially on the quantum level. Right now I am trying to establish an approach to figuring out where the next wave of sun-light will play out on the bottom of my pool when a 1200cc Harley Motorcycle, exactly a mile to the north of my pool starts its motor at exactly seven o’clock in the morning when the angle of the sunlight into my pool is just so, and the traffic is the heaviest around our city. I will first have to figure out the wind force/direction and effect it has on the waves creating the dancing lights, and deduct that from the vibration effect of the Harley at a mile distance. I understand that we always have some seismic activity even 320 miles from the nearest fault-line, so I will need a very accurate seismic report at the place and time of my actual measurement. My next door neighbor comes outside and talks on the phone a lot because she cannot get a good enough signal in the house, and I tell you she is loud. If she is out at the time of my measurements, it will definitely have an effect on the waves already created there. I also realize that even a fly going across the pool will have some very tiny effect, depends on the size of the fly, the speed and the height it flew across the water.
But will the water, the sun, the vibrations in the earth and how they effect the water in my pool which in turn changes the dancing sunlight on the bottom of my pool prove that there is no Creator? Will it give me the answer to ‘everything’?
Of course not. It proves the opposite, that there are absolute laws in the physical world, and I have observed them scientifically. Thus studying the universe through science proves there is a Creator.