Today's Headline From The Brisbane Sunday Mail

[KCKID]

This item http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/quee ... 6390040324 appeared on today's front page of the Brisbane Sunday Mail.

Sure, so-called reparative therapy for 'gays' has been discussed before but, since it never seems to go away, here it is yet again. Below are just a few (there were 128 at the time of posting) random reader comments. Feel free to add your own.

Francis Douglas of Briz
Every Library in EVERY school should have "Being Gay Being Christian" as compulsory reading for all grade 11 and 12 Students Dr. Stuart Edser from Newcastle Totally debunks this whole Christian idea of Gay life. He is a Minister and an Academic. His book is plain truth and the Bible passages they use are simply not true.

Jasonb84 of Gold Coast
Parents are paying thousands of dollars to try and cure there child of homosexuality, it's a total scam simply to make money as you cannot change your sexual orientation - I'm gay so I know.

Jack of Brisbane - High and Dry
In my experience, (assuming all the 'gays' I went to school with who are all married with kids now) it's just the next step of a rebellion phase. It used to be piercings and tattoos, but they're so mainstream now, its being gay. And yes, all but two, have 'switched back'. Scared the shit out of their parents at the time though, which can safely be assumed was the intent.

Andrew of derwan.com
Yet another case of forcing beliefs on others - and worst of all, they're forcing their beliefs on children!! This is child abuse!! If someone believes that being gay is wrong... sure... let them go through whatever "therapy" they CHOOSE. But the person has to be able to make an INFORMED choice. Children can't do this. Let kids learn... let them make their own decisions in life. Don't shove narrow-minded views down their throats.

Bloggs of Brisbane
If there was less pressure from the Gay lobby on young people then there would be less of an issue all round. The huge pressure on young people to be Gay, or to 'come out' when they are unsure of themselves is a total crock. The lowering of morals overall and the acceptance by so many of this action is more hurtful to the young than these so called treatments. I find it abysmal that society condones such behaviour form the Gay lobby.\

Luke of Brisbane
All religion should be made illegal. It is a dangerous delusion

Michael Mc
I'm beginning to wonder if we should try some re-education courses for these christian groups. A weekend retreat to discuss darwinism and the theory of evolution. A seminar on string theory and quantum mechanics. A two thousand word essay on cosmology, geology and the age of earth and the universe. Should they feel insulted that I think their thought processes are aberrations that can be 'cured'?

Allan Kaselter Posted
Given that homosexuality is contrary to the order of nature and is found only in humans, there has to be some support for the notion that it can be cured. The only question is whether it is psychological or whether it arises from a chemical imbalance or genetic defect.

Chronos Posted
Can we perhaps try to cure people of religious extremism? Wouldn't that be a more worthy and rational cause?

Mary Bunny
Always interesting when this ugly organization rears its head. Preaching god's love as conditional to hating yourself. Interesting to see that the links to all the Australian churches have been removed. My mother attends her church weekly in a conservative farming community and when my partner and I visit we are always welcomed by all. It is truly a wonderful thing. There are lots of churches who will accept you as they are "the real thing", not this "pay to pray" nonsense with ugly conditions attached.

Chris Younger of Townsville
This practice must be outlawed immediately and stringently policed. How many young gay lives must be lost before we start to look after rather than ostracise the gay community?

Bob of Aspley
Here we go again, slam Christians.

Observer of Brisbane
I like the message on the sign the fellow is holding. God does indeed love everyone. He doesn't necessarily love what some people do. The Bible lists many things that God hates. God does not look at degrees of sin as we do. Sin is sin and it has one judgement and consequence and we have that warning in advance so that we do not suffer the consequence. Murder, lying, rape and homosexuality are all the same in the Bible. Yes, God loves homosexuals to but the Bible clearly says he hates what they do, calls it sin and sin has the same penalty regardless. Don't pick on the Church or Christian organisations for trying to save people from the sin they are in and it's penalty. Remember too that the Muslim Faith demands that homosexuals are stoned to death. No second chances. Every world religion has a strong stand against this sin.

Mark of Bne
People are entitled to a view without being denigrated even whatever religious views or sexual orientation you have. I am a Christian and I do not take kindly to homosexuals being denigrated in any shape or form. I believe it's wrong to do that. I accept and respect their choices but I personally respectfully disagree with their choices and leave it at that. Might I add here that there are many non religious people who happen to share that view too! Why aren't I/we entitled to that view anymore that homosexuals to theirs? What I find hypocritical and inconsistent is you can get away with denigrating Christianity, the church but similar denigration of say the muslims, Jews, Buddhists, homosexuals, watch out!

Love my neighbour of Queensland
My next door neighbour is a gay, church going lover of classical music whose hobby is fishing. I am a heterosexual, agnostic lover of heavy metal and my hobby is motor bike racing. We are great friends, we regularly socialise as neighbours and have a drink (me rum, him red wine)and he often baby sits our three kids who love him to death. Could one of these wonderful caring Christian groups please let me know when we should start be non-accepting of our differences and start trying to change each other? I would encourage my kids to mould their scruples around my neighbour Jeff long before I would let any Church group brainwash them.

L Anderson
Stupid bible bashers think they have all the answers but they have nothing but stupidity when they try their psychological crap on anyone. Don't they realise the harm they do?

Eric Winders of Nanango
Too busy reading their book of lies & fairy tales they call a bible, to read the conclusive scientific proof that sexual orientation is determined in the womb six weeks after conception.

John of Brisbane
Good to see the church trying to help those struck down with homosexuality.

fran
How blind adults are in focusing on God's true love for all people. Take a look at suicidal behaviour in homo-sexuals as adults. They are going against God's natural plan and in doing this expose themselves to becoming a victim that blames a society that is now making forced man made laws to make right what is wrong. As a Catholic I don't think any Christian Group would be popular for rejecting sinful and perverse sexualities. Even a non-christian person/parent does not want their children exposed to the sickening glamorisation of same-sex relationships.I tend to think the adults have a duty of care to allow children a normal uncomplicated childhood. So true love is based upon 'we can't do whatever we please without consequences'. Legalising sex-workers has not lessened STD'S makes one wonder how many pandemics we will be up against in the next decade. Fran

Fair go
Another massive beat-up to join the trend of very silly headlines dreamed up by someone at the Sunday Mail recently. If Christians believe in prayer and someone wants to abandon a lifestyle, why can't they counsel and pray for them? How come the same people that want "anything goes" when it comes to their lifestyle choices, and want the right for anyone to marry into whatever it is they are into are so quick to outlaw and ban what they disapprove of. They should welcome the freedom of speech and association that they want to protect their own disgusting habits. Blokes messing around in the sewerage system of another bloke is just disgusting and should not be treated with protection.

Rod of Brisbane
Is homosexuality a psychological disorder? Can a person's troubled upbringing result in sexual imbalance? There are a great many reputable therapists out there who believe this to be the case. Unfortunately there are many gay & lesbian activists out there willing to crush the reputation of these people should they choose to speak out. In our politically correct society many opinions are not allowed to be heard for fear of reprisal by those who have a different agenda.

Bob of Bne
Guess its a matter of christian priorities. Lets see the ACL and individual churches cure the world of violence, greed, paedophilia and poverty. Once they've got those licked, then happy for them work on converting the gays.

Do as I say of CQ
My slightly homophobic husband just looked over my shoulder while I was reading this story and muttered "idiots" at the pictures of the scantily and flamboyantly dressed men in the photo. I asked him to imagine they were all busty, leggy blonde females and asked would he have the same comment but of course his eyes widened and he laughed and said "bring it on!" THEN I asked him would he be happy for our own beautiful busty and leggy blonde daughter to be strutting her stuff in the same way, would he feel happy for men of his age to be oogling and saying "bring it on" while looking at our daughter? His response was a roar of "OVER MY DEAD BODY!" Talk about double and triple standards and a confused sense of morality and acceptance.....

Kel
And what's more unhealthy, a gay person or a soul so tortured with guilt and confusion that they want to take their life?

Jason of Bundaberg
Wow such good journalism, not biased at all!!, terrible misinformation. Christian groups have done such horrible damage over the years haven't they, they set up charities for the poor, house the homeless, help people get out of addictions, get out of debt, yep Christian organisations are pure evil. One day when the media gets their wish and Christianity is banned it will be a terrible place to live!!

Naughty
Christian groups also believe in some old punter sitting on a cloud making judegmental calls on whether to stop the horror of Syria, do a bit of hocus pocus on some gay adolescents that he created or get some athlete to win an event. This bearded almighty hippy has obviously lost interest.

Little Ray of of Sunshine
There is Christianity and there is Christianity. Jesus warned there will be wolves in sheep's clothing. It's up to you and me to discern who is who and which is which.

Jeffrey Pool
This is just another propaganda campaign by gay activists to silence Christian help of gay teenagers. Before 1980, psychologists acknowledged homosexuality to be associated with early sexual abuse, or other form of inappropriate connection with either parent. The homosexual legal group became too powerful and forced various professional societies to yield. Shame on newspapers reporting this article. Stopping teenagers from getting help.

Some Guy of Redcliffe
The world will be a far better place when these bronze-age mythologies finally die out and we can being to breathe the fresh air of reason.

Mike of Brisbane
These sorts of barbaric treatments indicate the only way one can be a good Christian is to not act as a Christian to all but a select few and then discriminate against those you consider "different". I wonder if Jesus intended for Christians to be so prejudicial as part of the membership conditions?

I could go on but I'll stop there. Thoughts?

[nbas899]

Where are all of the rallies opposing intolerance?

[KCKID]

Where are all of the rallies opposing intolerance?

What do you mean?

While the younger generation generally don't seem to have too much a problem with 'gays' (bullies of course will always find a reason to bully) it's a different story with many of the older generation. Just this afernoon I was helping out a business friend to mail-drop Home Security pamphlets and came across several people standing out the front of their home in conversation. I handed one of them a pamphlet and the discussion turned to the recent spate of break-ins, car theft, etc. that have been occurring in the area. A middle-aged/older man standing nearby watering the front yard yelled out, "We should let Bob Katter bring back the guns like he wants to and get rid of all these gays." While the remark had no bearing on what we were talking about and didn't make sense anyway it affirmed yet again that homophobia (yes, homophobia) really IS endemic within older/or religious society.

I notice that you're posting from Australia so I'm sure you know who Bob Katter, the red-neck politician, is.

[East of Eden]

This from the former head of the American Psychological Association, who also complains the group has been taken over by pushers of the gay agenda:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/former ... adlines%29

"In a second, briefer interview with NARTH on the same day, Cummings recalls his own work with homosexuals who wanted to leave the gay lifestyle during his tenure at Kaiser Permanente.

“It’s a difficult therapy, and it’s not huge in terms of numbers, but yes we have seen success, and this is why the stance that ‘you can never change’—Ronald Reagan said ‘never say never’—it’s absurd. All you have to do is find one exception and it knocks down the ‘never.’ But yes, I’ve experienced more than one exception,� said Cummings.

“Admittedly we had failures. The recidivism along the way with some would be intense, but we experience the same thing with treating substance abuse and alcoholism. Falling off the wagon is part of the treatment.�


If people with same-sex feelings want to change for whatever reason, what do you care?

[nbas899]

I notice that you're posting from Australia so I'm sure you know who Bob Katter, the red-neck politician, is.

Oh yes, I know about Bob Katter and his certain coloured ways. And I agree with everything else you said regarding the older and younger generations.

[JoeyKnothead]

Pray the gay away?

I think it's just a shame we can't pray away all them 'pray it all away' folks. Prayer is for when it can be shown to be a useful tool for the task.

[KCKID]

This from the former head of the American Psychological Association, who also complains the group has been taken over by pushers of the gay agenda:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/former ... adlines%29

Thanks for the link. Hmmmm . . .this is made to sound like a conspiracy of some kind and I find it hard to believe that all of the Psychological Associations throughout the world - that, I believe, have arrived at similar conclusions regarding 'the cause' of homosexuality - are controled by 'pushers of the gay agenda'. It would appear that Nicholas Cummings was, as he says, 'kicked out' as President of the APA, after only 12 months (1979-80) in office. This seems to suggest that he was considered by the APA board not to be up to the task. This does not necessarily mean that he has no credibility and he certainly comes across as being warm and sincere.

Something he did say causes me to wonder, however. After stating that he supports 'gay' marriage, he said, "The person is the one who decides what they want to do with their orientation." This more than implies that he DOES believe that one's sexual orientation is biological and not chosen. On the other hand he rather contradicts this by saying, "If someone decides to be gay, I respect that." While I realize that the words may have come out wrongly - we all do that at times - one might also expect the words from a past APA President to have been better thought out.

In a second, briefer interview with NARTH on the same day, Cummings recalls his own work with homosexuals who wanted to leave the gay lifestyle during his tenure at Kaiser Permanente.

I wonder how many of these homosexuals who desire to change their orientation are influenced to do so by religion? I would suspect ...many. It probably needs to be pointed out here that Cummings appears to be affiliated with the Catholic publication that is carrying out the interview. Therefore, the contents of the interview would obviously be slanted toward the Catholic belief on this issue. Otherwise it would not have been seen as relevant. Even so, it is of interest and one should not fear pursuing and perhaps determining the truth or not behind what Cummings speaks of. We all should be open to the truth even if it shows us to be wrong. However, even if be found that the APA was/is influenced by the 'gay movement' that would not necessarily mean that the APA findings pertaining to homosexuality are incorrect.

“It’s a difficult therapy, and it’s not huge in terms of numbers, but yes we have seen success, and this is why the stance that ‘you can never change’—Ronald Reagan said ‘never say never’—it’s absurd. All you have to do is find one exception and it knocks down the ‘never.’ But yes, I’ve experienced more than one exception,� said Cummings.

How one can ever positively state that someone 'has changed' would be nigh to impossible to determine. Homosexuals ('gay' and lesbian) can and DO marry and produce families. Does that make them 'straight'? Some, years later, simply can't continue with the pretence and so they 'come out'. They may, of course, have been bi-sexual and later leaned more fully toward homosexuality. Sexuality does not necessarily remain static. Sexuality is MOST complex and can never be summed up with the oft-cried, "the Bible sez." Whatever, when families are subjected to the mom or dad 'coming out' this can be most devastating for all concerned. Human beings can be very skilled at faking, especially when attempting to conform to society's norms or when positive results are expected of them such as with 'therapy'. That anyone can EVER state officially that a one-time homosexual is now a heterosexual cannot be taken seriously.

“Admittedly we had failures. The recidivism along the way with some would be intense, but we experience the same thing with treating substance abuse and alcoholism. Falling off the wagon is part of the treatment.�

So homosexuality (i.e. one's sexual orientation) is being equated to substance abuse and alcoholism ...? 'Falling off the wagon' ...hmmm . . .could that possibly have anything to do with the fact that they are most definitely 'GAY' and cannot therefore change their biological make-up?

If people with same-sex feelings want to change for whatever reason, what do you care?

I don't ...it's none of my business what people choose to do with their lives. HOWEVER, when religious fanatics start waving their Bibles around and yelling "FAGS MUST DIE!" or 'Leviticus sez" or some other such cruel catch-cry that is intended to demonize or dehumanize another human being then I DO care! I suspect that many people who go into 'therapy' that is intended to change their sexual orientation do so BECAUSE of Christianity's cruel and heartless message!

[Goat]

This from the former head of the American Psychological Association, who also complains the group has been taken over by pushers of the gay agenda:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/former ... adlines%29

Thanks for the link. Hmmmm . . .this is made to sound like a conspiracy of some kind and I find it hard to believe that all of the Psychological Associations throughout the world - that, I believe, have arrived at similar conclusions regarding 'the cause' of homosexuality - are controled by 'pushers of the gay agenda'. It would appear that Nicholas Cummings was, as he says, 'kicked out' as President of the APA, after only 12 months (1979-80) in office. This seems to suggest that he was considered by the APA board not to be up to the task. This does not necessarily mean that he has no credibility and he certainly comes across as being warm and sincere.

Of course, the next step is to look at 'life site news', and see if there is a religious bias there.

Wiki's entry says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_Life_Coalition

It, among other things, is a pro-life conservative group that opposes gay marriage,..From 'right wing watch ' http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/ ... -site-news

This is the same website that demanded the Catholic Church excommunicate Democratic politicians, maintained that feminists were to blame for the Costa Concordia disaster, compares gays and lesbians to pagans and fervently supports ex-gay ‘reparative’ therapy. Jalsevac even asked for donations to promote “freedom from the homosexual lifestyle�:

Hum.. it doesn't seem like that are an unbiased source.. why am I not surprised.

[KCKID]

Pray the gay away?

I think it's just a shame we can't pray away all them 'pray it all away' folks. Prayer is for when it can be shown to be a useful tool for the task.

A young friend of mine prayed for years for God to help him overcome his homosexuality. He was very much involved with the Church and also with a variety of Christian youth programs, many of which he initiated. The older he got the more he came to realize that God was not going to change him. He later accepted the fact that he is biologically a homosexual and that God must be okay with that. Afterwards he estranged himself from the Church that he'd been a part of pretty well since birth. To their credit, none of the church youth abandoned him after he 'came out' to them. The adults, however, may have told a different story had they become aware of 'his secret'. But, in all fairness, maybe not. We'll never know. Anyway, my friend left the area due to work opportunities elsewhere and also left Christianity behind him.

As you say, prayer is for when it can be shown to be a useful tool for the task. If prayers remain unanswered, as appears to have been the case with my friend, Christians have an appropriate answer. That is, 'your prayer must not have been sincere . . .'

[KCKID]

I notice that you're posting from Australia so I'm sure you know who Bob Katter, the red-neck politician, is.

Oh yes, I know about Bob Katter and his certain coloured ways. And I agree with everything else you said regarding the older and younger generations.

And, of ALL the unlikely people in the world to actually be stuck with a 'gay' brother (or is it his half-brother?) ...it's Bob Katter! To those stateside or elsewhere who have no idea who Katter is but who might be interested in finding out, I'm pretty sure that he can, unfortunately, be found on the web. Just look up: 'frothing-at-the-mouth homophobe . . .'

Actually, Bob is, as mentioned above, a colorful character and can be almost likeable at times.