Is eye witness testimony enough?

[Justin108]

The whole Bible basically relies either on claims of divine experience or eye witness claims. But are these enough?

If you willingly accept the claims made by these men, then on what grounds do you reject the claims made by people who believe they were abducted by aliens? On what grounds do you reject the claims of people who hear voices? On what grounds do you reject the claims of Bigfoot sightings?

How do you choose which eye witnesses to believe?

[Nickman]

The secular state of Israel is not the kingdom of Isreal. The secular state of Israel does not have the King, it does not have the Torah at the center, nor does it have a temple.

The restoration of the kingdom of Israel is to take place in two stages.

So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them.

Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.� So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.
(Ezekiel 37:7-10 ESV)

The first is the establishment of a nation which is still spiritually dead because it hasn't yet returned to worshipping God. That is what has already happened.

The nation will be fully restored when it returns to God by acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah. That will happen when Christ returns.

Can you provide scripture that says that the Messiah was supposed to die and be crucified? Can you back up the ideas that the Messiah was supposed to return from heaven? Can you provide scripture that the Messiah was supposed to be blonde haired and blue eyed?

[GADARENE]

I hate to say it, but here goes.

Despite their best efforts, and I really do believe some of them are sincere, not one pagan, infidel or heathen has made a case for her position that moves me at all.

If they are going to proselytize, they need some new material. None of their comments nudge me any closer to worshipping their gods of no gods. I dare say not one devout, sanctified, washed in the blood, born again christian reading their silly statements has been persuaded in the least. Rattling off a multitude of convoluted inane ideas is old hat and boring.

But, seriously, don't get discouraged. Keep at it. Be proud of the effort you make.

[GADARENE]

His life, death and resurrection were predicted. The following are but a few of those prophecies.

He will be "numbered with the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12). Fulfillment: Jesus was crucified as a criminal in between two thieves (Mat 27:38).

He will be pierced (Zechariah 12:10). Fulfillment: John 19:34

His hands and feet will be pierced (Psalm 22:16; cf. Zechariah 12:10; Galatians 3:13). Crucifixion foretold. Psalm 22 graphically prophecies the Messiah's manner of death. At the time the psalm was written (and long after), the penalty for blasphemy was stoning. Therefore, this prediction of crucifixion is particularly astonishing.

The Jewish Passover sacrifice and Jesus Christ's sacrificial death coincide exactly. The dates on which Jesus was taken by the Roman authorities, and then slain, also coincided precisely with the Jewish Passover. Jesus became the Passover Lamb, "without blemish." Just as the angel of death passed by those Israelites who put blood on their doorposts - so Jesus' sacrificial death also results in freedom from death and hell for those who accept His blood.

His bones will not be broken (Psalm 34:20; Exodus 12 states that the Passover Lamb's bones are not to be broken.). Fulfillment: John 19:33.

They will divide his clothing and cast lots for them (Psalm 22:18). Fulfillment: John 19:23-24.

He will be given vinegar and gall to drink (Psalm 69:21). Fulfillment: Matthew 27:34, 48.
He will say: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Psalm 22:1). Fulfillment: Matthew 27:46.

He will be buried with the rich (Isaiah 53:9). Fulfillment: Matthew 27.

He will not decay (Psalm 16:10). Fulfillment: Acts 2:31

He will be resurrected from the dead (Psalm 16:10). Fulfillment: Acts 2:31, etc.

He will ascend into heaven (Psalm 68:18). Fulfillment: Acts 1:9.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

His life, death and resurrection were predicted. The following are but a few of those prophecies.

He will be "numbered with the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12).

How did you come to decide that this is a song about Jesus? The passage makes no mention of Jesus or any messiah. It is speaking of the "righteous servant" of God (53:11), a term the author also used earlier to refer to Israel (49:3). It seems the passage is about Israel, not Jesus.

[GADARENE]

His life, death and resurrection were predicted. The following are but a few of those prophecies.

He will be "numbered with the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12).

How did you come to decide that this is a song about Jesus? The passage makes no mention of Jesus or any messiah. It is speaking of the "righteous servant" of God (53:11), a term the author also used earlier to refer to Israel (49:3). It seems the passage is about Israel, not Jesus.

do you believe that based on those rumors you refer to?

he was the righteous servant.

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

His life, death and resurrection were predicted. The following are but a few of those prophecies.

He will be "numbered with the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12).

How did you come to decide that this is a song about Jesus? The passage makes no mention of Jesus or any messiah. It is speaking of the "righteous servant" of God (53:11), a term the author also used earlier to refer to Israel (49:3). It seems the passage is about Israel, not Jesus.

do you believe that based on those rumors you refer to?

he was the righteous servant.

I believe it because in the document you are citing, "servant" is explicitly used to refer to Israel, and Jesus is never mentioned. Why do you think this song is about Jesus?

[GADARENE]

His life, death and resurrection were predicted. The following are but a few of those prophecies.

He will be "numbered with the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12).

How did you come to decide that this is a song about Jesus? The passage makes no mention of Jesus or any messiah. It is speaking of the "righteous servant" of God (53:11), a term the author also used earlier to refer to Israel (49:3). It seems the passage is about Israel, not Jesus.

do you believe that based on those rumors you refer to?

he was the righteous servant.

I believe it because in the document you are citing, "servant" is explicitly used to refer to Israel, and Jesus is never mentioned. Why do you think this song is about Jesus?

the document you refer to is a rumor, 4QMMT, or forged musings of three essenians. the document to which i refer is scripture.

[Goat]

His life, death and resurrection were predicted. The following are but a few of those prophecies.

He will be "numbered with the transgressors" (Isaiah 53:12).

How did you come to decide that this is a song about Jesus? The passage makes no mention of Jesus or any messiah. It is speaking of the "righteous servant" of God (53:11), a term the author also used earlier to refer to Israel (49:3). It seems the passage is about Israel, not Jesus.

do you believe that based on those rumors you refer to?

he was the righteous servant.

I believe it because in the document you are citing, "servant" is explicitly used to refer to Israel, and Jesus is never mentioned. Why do you think this song is about Jesus?

the document you refer to is a rumor, 4QMMT, or forged musings of three essenians. the document to which i refer is scripture.

No, actually, the Document he is referring to is Isaiah. IN CONTEXT.. the servant is explicitly referring to Israel as the servant, as part of the '4th servant song'.

No need to refer to the Essenes at all.