Death of Babies

[Justin108]

As morbid as the title may be, there is something about this that has always confused me in the Christian dogma and that is the fate of dead babies.

Do dead babies go to heaven?

If your answer is no then God is sick and evil for sending innocent babies to hell for absolutely no fault of their own. Sadly enough, Mark 16:16 suggests this and makes no exception for babies.

If your answer is yes then there are several problems with that aswell:
1. It isn't supported by the Bible so this is but wishful thinking
2. Where is the fairness in it? A baby is born and dies and goes straight to heaven while the rest of us have a good chance of ending up in hell. Isn't it unfair for babies to get a sure thing by going straight to heaven? With this in mind, it would be even altruistic to kill a baby since you are saving them from potential hell?

[1213]

I keep having to remind you time and again that Mark 16:16 makes it clear that belief is ALSO needed.

Believing what Jesus said can make person righteous, therefore believing can save.

He, who doesn’t believe, will die to his sins. Or in other words person dies to his unrighteousness.

But that aside... can you imagine a baby that is but a few days old being unrighteous?

Yeas I can. And I can also imagine that God may see in some situation that it is better that baby dies. After all in Biblical point of view, body is not as meaningful as spirit or soul. In my opinion death of a body is not the end and is not as bad as for those who see only physical reality. Of course killing is forbidden, but body’s death is not worse things that could happen and eventually all bodies will die, I think

[Justin108]

He, who doesn’t believe, will die to his sins. Or in other words person dies to his unrighteousness.

You're suggesting an atheist cannot be righteous and that is just false.

Justin108 wrote:
But that aside... can you imagine a baby that is but a few days old being unrighteous?


Yeas I can.

You would have to elaborate on that. What wrong could a 3 day old baby possibly have committed?

[ttruscott]

[quote="no evidence no belief"]


What part of creation's worst insane criminals born as babies did you not understand?

Peace, Ted

[ttruscott]

He, who doesn’t believe, will die to his sins. Or in other words person dies to his unrighteousness.

You're suggesting an atheist cannot be righteous and that is just false.

Justin108 wrote:
But that aside... can you imagine a baby that is but a few days old being unrighteous?


Yeas I can.

You would have to elaborate on that. What wrong could a 3 day old baby possibly have committed?

Already answered so persistance means... ?

Peace, Ted

[micatala]

As morbid as the title may be, there is something about this that has always confused me in the Christian dogma and that is the fate of dead babies.

Do dead babies go to heaven?

If your answer is no then God is sick and evil for sending innocent babies to hell for absolutely no fault of their own. Sadly enough, Mark 16:16 suggests this and makes no exception for babies.

If your answer is yes then there are several problems with that aswell:
1. It isn't supported by the Bible so this is but wishful thinking
2. Where is the fairness in it? A baby is born and dies and goes straight to heaven while the rest of us have a good chance of ending up in hell. Isn't it unfair for babies to get a sure thing by going straight to heaven? With this in mind, it would be even altruistic to kill a baby since you are saving them from potential hell?

Your assertion GOD is sick and evil rests upon your theory babies are innocent... a strawman at best because a majority of Christians do not believe them to be innocent.

So, instead of disparaging Christianity or GOD for this doctrine, a focus based upon a little research on those who actually believe it would frame the topic in a more realistic manner...

As well, proof babies are innocent and don't just look innocent is necessary before an answer is necessary, I do believe.

Peace, Ted

I am not able to comprehend what a new born baby may be guilty of. Please help me.

If this ties in to some pre birth philosophy, you can just say so. I'm not really interested in hearing more about those un-evidenced justification.

Wait this is the pre-existence guy? I keep forgetting which nutcase is which.

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[Justin108]

He, who doesn’t believe, will die to his sins. Or in other words person dies to his unrighteousness.

You're suggesting an atheist cannot be righteous and that is just false.

Justin108 wrote:
But that aside... can you imagine a baby that is but a few days old being unrighteous?


Yeas I can.

You would have to elaborate on that. What wrong could a 3 day old baby possibly have committed?

Already answered so persistance means... ?

Peace, Ted

1213 does not share your pre-existence theory. I'd rather have a response from someone who would be able to back up his argument with something other than speculation as that is all you have to support your pre-existence

[Dantalion]

Wow this is amazing.

so NOW it's thou shalt not kill again?

Didn't it get apologized into 'thou shalt not do murder' ?


anyway, stop changing the topic to abortion.
This is not about atheists, and if it were, your stance on it has got nothing to do with abortion.
no evidence no belief is an atheist, and he's against abortion.
I am an atheist, and I am pro choice.

See how that works?? Now deal with it.

[1213]

You would have to elaborate on that. What wrong could a 3 day old baby possibly have committed?

Righteousness is in my opinion like state of mind. And all wrong doings come from peoples innermost that I think is mind. Baby may have unrighteous mind and so if could he would do wrong things.

[Justin108]

You would have to elaborate on that. What wrong could a 3 day old baby possibly have committed?

Righteousness is in my opinion like state of mind. And all wrong doings come from peoples innermost that I think is mind. Baby may have unrighteous mind and so if could he would do wrong things.

How could a 3 day old baby have an unrigheous mind? The kid is barely alive and you think he's plotting to do evil? A new born isn't even capable of recognizing himself, let alone have the capacity to have evil intentions

[bluethread]

Speaking for myself, I do not oppose abortion because it is not murder as a fetus is not a human being. But this is a Red Herring. I am not about to debate abortion. Stick to the OP

On the contrary, it is to the point. Since a fetus is not a human being, in your view, and therefore not worthy of recognition, why must a baby, not being a deity, be worthy of Adonai's recognition? By your definition, Adonai is no more guilty that the abortionist.

"not being a deity"? So only deity's matter now? Isn't god against other deities as we are commanded not to worship them?

No, I was applying your viewpoint consistantly. We are working off of your judgement, not mine. Remember, "Going by what the Bible does say, one would have to conclude that babies go to hell so I guess God is sick and evil." The last phrase is not what the Scriptures say. It is your conclusion and judgement. According to the standard you are using to make that judgement, if it is acceptable for human beings to only care about human beings, why is it not acceptable for Adonai not to care about humans?

But anyway, it sounds to me as tho you're taking the position that God DOES in fact send them to hell and you justify it by saying that baby's are not worthy of his recognition.

Again: wow

I never said that Adonai sends anybody to "hell", also I did not say that babies are not worthy of His recognition, nor did I refer to what degree they should be recognized, if they are. Now, if you are actually interested my world view, maybe we should start without your preconceived notions of what is "sick and evil". Maybe we should look at what the Sciptures say regarding death and evil.