The Negation in 'Do Not Believe' Statements

[iamtaka]

Atheists often claim, "I do not believe God exists." When asked to clarify what they mean, they point out that they lack belief in God's existence. When they read the sentence provided, they see the negation as being applied to the verb believe and not the content of belief (i.e., God exists). That is, "do not believe" means simply "lacking belief."

Alternatively, if the negation applied to the content of belief, then the statement could be rephrased as "I believe no God exists." or "I believe God does not exist." This means the atheist would not "lack belief in God's existence" but would rather hold a belief about the non-existence of God.

Question for debate:
Q. Within a linguistic context, does the negation apply to the verb believe or the content of belief?

[Jax Agnesson]

Either. Some people take a strong atheist position 'I believe there are no gods'.
Others take the less strong position 'I do not believe there are any gods'.
Some, (like me, f'rinstance') are not settled on either position, but kind of rock between the two, as new arguments are presented and have to be considered, or different social situations occur.
A lot turns on whether Mars is in the fourth or the seventh house.

[10CC]

Atheists often claim, "I do not believe God exists." When asked to clarify what they mean, they point out that they lack belief in God's existence. When they read the sentence provided, they see the negation as being applied to the verb believe and not the content of belief (i.e., God exists). That is, "do not believe" means simply "lacking belief."

Alternatively, if the negation applied to the content of belief, then the statement could be rephrased as "I believe no God exists." or "I believe God does not exist." This means the atheist would not "lack belief in God's existence" but would rather hold a belief about the non-existence of God.

Question for debate:
Q. Within a linguistic context, does the negation apply to the verb believe or the content of belief?

People "CLAIM" a god/s existence.
I reject that CLAIM.

[iamtaka]

Either. Some people take a strong atheist position 'I believe there are no gods'.
Others take the less strong position 'I do not believe there are any gods'.
Some, (like me, f'rinstance') are not settled on either position, but kind of rock between the two, as new arguments are presented and have to be considered, or different social situations occur.

I would like for you to clarify the connection between your post and the question. Thanks.

[iamtaka]

Question for debate:
Q. Within a linguistic context, does the negation apply to the verb believe or the content of belief?

People "CLAIM" a god/s existence.
I reject that CLAIM.

This does not address the question for debate.

[10CC]

Question for debate:
Q. Within a linguistic context, does the negation apply to the verb believe or the content of belief?

People "CLAIM" a god/s existence.
I reject that CLAIM.

This does not address the question for debate.

Of course it does.

From whence god?

Man's claim.

I reject man's claim.

[iamtaka]

Question for debate:
Q. Within a linguistic context, does the negation apply to the verb believe or the content of belief?

People "CLAIM" a god/s existence.
I reject that CLAIM.

This does not address the question for debate.

Of course it does.

From whence god?

Man's claim.

I reject man's claim.

I fail to see where your response addresses the issue of linguistic negation. Please clarify.

[Jax Agnesson]

Either. Some people take a strong atheist position 'I believe there are no gods'.
Others take the less strong position 'I do not believe there are any gods'.
Some, (like me, f'rinstance') are not settled on either position, but kind of rock between the two, as new arguments are presented and have to be considered, or different social situations occur.

I would like for you to clarify the connection between your post and the question. Thanks.

Question for debate:
Q. Within a linguistic context, does the negation apply to the verb believe or the content of belief?

My response, with analysis:
Sentence one of my response:

Some people take a strong atheist position 'I believe there are no gods'.

This is an example of the application of the negation to the content of belief.
Sentence two of my response:

Others take the less strong position 'I do not believe there are any gods'.

This is an example of the application of the negation to the verb.
Your question for debate asked whether the negation applies to the verb or the content (noun).
I responded by showing examples of both; the two examples being equally valid linguistically, semantically and syntactically..
(PS. You can ignore the astrological refence; I was just taking the p out of my own lack of philosophical rigidity!)

[Nickman]

Your OP is just playing word games. Saying "I do not believe that God exists" is a rejection of the claim that God does exist. Saying "I believe that God does not exist" is the exact same thing, but just written differently. They are the same exact declaration consisting of the exact same 7 words.

Those who say that they are not the same don't understand the grammatical construct of both sentences.

Lets try it in a different scenario;

"I do not believe that Zebras are orange and brown."
"I believe that Zebras are not orange and brown."

It is the same thing, just written differently. The conclusion is the same. You get the exact same information from both sentences.

A person who does not believe that Zebras are orange and brown, also believes that Zebras are not orange and brown.

[iamtaka]

Let me help focus the discussion.

1. I do not believe the Red Sox will win the World Series.
Which is an equivalent statement?
a. I believe the Red Sox will not win the World Series.
b. I lack the belief that the Red Sox will win the World Series.

2. I do not believe X equals Y.
Which is an equivalent statement?
a. I believe X does not equal Y.
b. I lack the belief that X equals Y.

3. I do not believe she is ugly.
Which is an equivalent statement?
a. I believe she is not ugly.
b. I lack the belief that she is ugly.

4. I do not believe he is fat.
Which is an equivalent statement?
a. I believe he is not fat.
b. I lack the belief that he is fat.