Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

[Jashwell]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

Doesn't seem like much preamble is needed, but expect this largely to be filled (if at all) with arguments in favour of the existence of a God and counter-arguments. (Because the question is not "Are there good reasons to believe that a god does not exist?"). Though if you do think you have a good argument that shows it is reasonable to believe God does not exist, that is also valid.

This question comes up a lot in other threads where various classical arguments (e.g. ontological, axiological, cosmological) have been given in those threads.

If possible, try not to shotgun debate by raising lots of arguments at once. One sound argument should be sufficient.

[dianaiad]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

Doesn't seem like much preamble is needed, but expect this largely to be filled (if at all) with arguments in favour of the existence of a God and counter-arguments. (Because the question is not "Are there good reasons to believe that a god does not exist?"). Though if you do think you have a good argument that shows it is reasonable to believe God does not exist, that is also valid.

This question comes up a lot in other threads where various classical arguments (e.g. ontological, axiological, cosmological) have been given in those threads.

If possible, try not to shotgun debate by raising lots of arguments at once. One sound argument should be sufficient.

I think there are.

However, my reasons for thinking so are personal and subjective, and because my initial reason for believing in one is (in my own view) sound, all the 'stuff' I see around me simply 'fits' into that reasoning.

The problem with your question is this: I don't believe in God because I first thought there might be good reasons to do so. I find that there are good reasons to believe BECAUSE I first believe in God.

That is, if 'good reason' is defined as 'some empirical, testable, evidence."

I believe because I went out and looked myself. I got my own answer...and anybody who believes in deity, for himself, will have to do the same thing. There really is no way you can find God, originally, through science. I think you can admire Him through science, and enjoy His creations through science...but find Him in the first place?

Nope.

......for the same reason that trying to figure out how old a rock is by praying over it is a bad idea.

Different areas of human experience and understanding.

[Divine Insight]

Though if you do think you have a good argument that shows it is reasonable to believe God does not exist, that is also valid.

For me, the most obvious reason to believe that a God does not exist is because of all the obvious suffering that goes on to even innocent people. Also animals also suffer greatly. And often times the suffering is caused by perfectly natural causes like natural events, disease, or even animals eating each other.

I can't imagine why any God would create such a nasty world.

Now if we want to look specifically at the biblical God and Christianity in particular, for me, that religion makes things far worse, not better at all.

To begin with this religion tries to place the blame for all suffering onto humans which, IMHO, is a total crock. For examples, why in the world should animals suffer for the behavior of humans?

The whole story of Adam and Eve and the fall from grace sounds to me like some serious baloney, and I can't even remotely justify any of it.

Add to that nonsense, the idea that this God would believe that by having his own corrupted priests crucify his own son on a pole in a gory manner should somehow make things right for humans to be redeemed, is not only utterly absurd to me, but I even see it as being utterly ignorant on the part of any God that might exist. This God would be demanding that I stoop to his derogatory level of morality.

It's not bad enough that he would have his own priest crucify his only begotten son in a gory manner to somehow pay for the sins of man, but then to ask decent folks like myself, and any other decent people out there to condone this type of behavior on our behave is, quite frankly, an insult to my own character.

If there exists a "God" it most certainly isn't the God described in the Bible.

And that includes the God of Islam and Judaism as well. Those factions of this religion may not have this God doing something so stupid as having his own priests crucifying his only begotten son, but IMHO they have this God doing equally stupid things.

Christianity offends me in particular, precisely because the Christians act like I should condone such immoral garbage. But the other too offshoots of these fables aren't much better.

I like to pretend that there is something more to life than a mere freak accident. But it's really hard to do in light of the literal dog-eat-dog world that we live in. A world that is clearly filled with suffering totally independent of any humans.

Animals ate each other and died from disease and natural disasters long before humans ever existed. There's no way that any religion can pin the blame for 'evil' on humans. What we have come to call 'evil' has always existed.

And that means that any God that might exist, is itself evil.

So it's probably far more likely that there just isn't any God at all.

~~~~~~~~

Important Note:

Although I recognize the natural suffering, and even the suffering caused by some humans, the fact of the matter is that most humans are not evil (contrary to what religions would like for people to believe).

This makes sense even in a purely accidental secular world, because most humans are simply intelligent enough to know better than to go around harming their neighbors. To do so is just plain stupid.

There are stupid people in the world, and there are people who apparently enjoy harming and oppressing others. Fortunately they are in an extreme minority. Many religious theists will try to argue that this isn't true and that most humans are evil and in need of redemption or whatever, but that's clearly a crock.

The truth of the matter is that violent crimes are committed by a very small percentage of the population. In fact, it's far less than 5%. This means that on average 95% of the people you meet in the world are more likely to be good people than bad people.

This may not seem to be true in some areas, but I'm speaking globally considering the entire world's population. The overwhelming majority of people on Earth are good people.

This is a total contradiction to religions like Christianity. So that's just yet another reason why the religion is necessarily false.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 1 by Jashwell]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

There are plenty, here's a couple off the top of my head:
some people need something 'bigger' than themselves protecting and befriending them to get them through life (protect me oh lord!)
some people need something that can't be fully understood to understand things of our lives they can't/won't try to understand (aka god did it!)
some people need something untouchable to hide behind once they become aggressive towards other people/groups (god says it's bad so it is - deal with it!)
some people need to get to heaven and society tells them 'a god' is the only way to do this
Basically, many people need 'a god' to function through life. They can be lazy and uneducated, as well as superstitious and easily manipulated with fear and guilt and highly able to accept suggestiveness under the right person.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 1 by Jashwell]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

There are plenty, here's a couple off the top of my head:
some people need something 'bigger' than themselves protecting and befriending them to get them through life (protect me oh lord!)
some people need something that can't be fully understood to understand things of our lives they can't/won't try to understand (aka god did it!)
some people need something untouchable to hide behind once they become aggressive towards other people/groups (god says it's bad so it is - deal with it!)
some people need to get to heaven and society tells them 'a god' is the only way to do this
Basically, many people need 'a god' to function through life. They can be lazy and uneducated, as well as superstitious and easily manipulated with fear and guilt and highly able to accept suggestiveness under the right person.

None of the reasons you gave are good reasons to believe in a God.

On the contrary, they are actually extremely poor reasons.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 1 by Jashwell]

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

There are plenty, here's a couple off the top of my head:
some people need something 'bigger' than themselves protecting and befriending them to get them through life (protect me oh lord!)
some people need something that can't be fully understood to understand things of our lives they can't/won't try to understand (aka god did it!)
some people need something untouchable to hide behind once they become aggressive towards other people/groups (god says it's bad so it is - deal with it!)
some people need to get to heaven and society tells them 'a god' is the only way to do this
Basically, many people need 'a god' to function through life. They can be lazy and uneducated, as well as superstitious and easily manipulated with fear and guilt and highly able to accept suggestiveness under the right person.

So...for you 'good reasons' to believe in God generally boil down to deficiency in work ethics,courage, and ethical self sufficiency, combined with a severe case of gullibility?

(though I don't quite get the thing about needing a god to get to heaven; if there's a heaven to get to, there's generally a god who invented it...usually...)


Wow.

If all this is true, I am astounded beyond belief that humankind has crawled out of caves and developed language over and above grunts and finger pointing at the nearest edible animal.

Are there any reasons to believe in a deity OTHER than the deficiencies of character and intellect in everybody but you? Because what you have done, here, is a huge 'appeal to ridicule' fallacy.

It doesn't, after all, matter what you think of those who believe, or the reasons why you disapprove or disparage those who believe. Are there any reasons why those who do believe chose to believe, say, in a god rather than a Buddhist view of the world, where there is no god, but there is a continuum of life?

Why believe in a deity rather than in one's ancestors, for instance? Why a deity rather than nature spirits? Why a deity rather than an...admiration of nature as a cohesive whole, for which we are responsible?

Can you think of why someone might go there instead of elsewhere...without deciding that everybody who might want to believe in a deity is, obviously, taking too many life lessons from Forest Gump?

[Divine Insight]

I believe because I went out and looked myself. I got my own answer...and anybody who believes in deity, for himself, will have to do the same thing. There really is no way you can find God, originally, through science. I think you can admire Him through science, and enjoy His creations through science...but find Him in the first place?

Nope.

Why would you need to 'find' a God in the first place?

Why would a God be playing hide-and-seek to begin with?

If you set out looking for a 'God' because you feel that you need one then there's a really good chance that you will convince yourself that you found what you think you 'need'.

You really should have good solid empirical evidence first before you decide to believe in a God. Believing in a God first, and then trying to justify that belief after the fact is putting the cart before the horse don't you think?

[Peter]

The question is too vague.

Are there any good scientific reasons to believe that a god exists? Absolutely none.

Are there any good personal reasons to believe that a god exists? Sure, plenty.

God belief only exists on this planet because people want it. Remember, you can get people to believe anything at all no matter how ridiculous if you can only figure out how to make them want to believe it. The gospel of prosperity is a good example. "Hey, if you're poor and you want money just believe what I'm telling you and wealth will flow your way. Oh yes, leave a generous donation on your way out please."

[connermt]

[Replying to post 5 by Divine Insight]

It doesn't matter how much evidence is presented, it is still the choice of the viewer as to whether it is believable or not.

Well, they are 'good' for some it seems.

On the contrary, they are actually extremely poor reasons.

Absolutely. However, they are reasons one will find in today's world....

[connermt]

[Replying to post 6 by dianaiad]

for you 'good reasons' to believe in God generally boil down to deficiency in work ethics,courage, and ethical self sufficiency, combined with a severe case of gullibility?

Please indicate where I said "for me" anywhere in my post.
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