Why should one care that God exists?

[Deidre32]

I'm an atheist but also a former Christian. Instead if asking Christians to show me evidence of god's existence (which there is no objective proof; the Bible isn't proof of anything) why not tell me and other atheists, why is believing relevant? Why should anyone care if a god exists?

If a god exists, why does he/it need my buy in?

Why is believing in a god ...necessary to living a good and productive life? (It's not but I'm interested in learning from Christians here, why they feel otherwise)

Thanks!

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 1 by Deidre32]

What if said deity sustained its existence off of belief and said deity's existence sustained the universe like a higgs field of sorts?

(Just being a devil's advocate)

[Divine Insight]

I'm an atheist but also a former Christian. Instead if asking Christians to show me evidence of god's existence (which there is no objective proof; the Bible isn't proof of anything) why not tell me and other atheists, why is believing relevant? Why should anyone care if a god exists?

The Bible claims to be "God's Word", therefore to deny that the Bible is God's Word is to call call a liar.

Seriously, that's the mentality of Christianity. Denial of the Bible is a sin deserving of eternal damnation. Especially denial that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

If a god exists, why does he/it need my buy in?

A real God wouldn't. And this is why atheists understand that the Bible can't be anything more than a politically motivated collection of religious superstitions used to keep people under the thumb of authoritarians.

Why is believing in a god ...necessary to living a good and productive life?

It's not but the Bible claims that it is:

Psalms.53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

The Bible claims that those who do not believe are the immoral scum of the world. It's all part of this religious-political scam.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by Deidre32]

Our beliefs determine our faith and our faith our actions.

So if you believe that you are an animal and all animals are equal you may start treating humans as animals. For example.

Or if you believe in karma then you will believe the less fortunate deserve their life and you will not be as compassionate.

And so on.

You could also wonder why you want to live a productive life? To me that is evidence that you believe in materialism and that having more and doing more means something.

So it's not a matter of whether God exists but which god you follow. I like to be conscious of the God I follow and of all the gods I am aware of Jesus is the model for me.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 4 by Wootah]

So if you believe that you are an animal and all animals are equal you may start treating humans as animals. For example

I believe I am an animal a primate to be specific. I am not above other animals I am just another living organism. However the phrase start treating humans as animals is often used in a pejorative context. The context in this case is that people who don't believe we are some special creation would start going around and inhumanly treating others. It is both a false assumption and very negative in its point. Hardly I would find such rhetoric conducive to a civil debate.

Our beliefs determine our faith and our faith our actions.

Prove it.

So it's not a matter of whether God exists but which god you follow. I like to be conscious of the God I follow and of all the gods I am aware of Jesus is the model for me.

Now your getting a bit nebulous with the term god. Is god just an idea? What is god to you are you suggesting that atheists are unconsciously worshiping gods they are unaware of? If so which gods and if they are worshiping gods are you suggesting that polytheism exists? Or are you simply suggesting that your god is not real but the idea is?

[Zzyzx]

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If a god exists, why does he/it need my buy in?

If any of the thousands of proposed / worshiped "gods" actually exist it is unlikely that it / they need your belief.

However, self-selected "representatives" -- promoters / priests / prophets DO NEED your belief (or at least the belief of a significant number of people). Convincing people to believe their claims and stories is essential to gaining influence (and often income or wealth).

Even mere believers / worshipers often "need" the belief of others to confirm their own beliefs. Thus, they often attempt to convince or coerce others to accept their worship preferences.

[dianaiad]

I'm an atheist but also a former Christian. Instead if asking Christians to show me evidence of god's existence (which there is no objective proof; the Bible isn't proof of anything) why not tell me and other atheists, why is believing relevant? Why should anyone care if a god exists?

If a god exists, why does he/it need my buy in?

Why is believing in a god ...necessary to living a good and productive life? (It's not but I'm interested in learning from Christians here, why they feel otherwise)

Thanks!

Define 'good and productive."

Most of the values that you hold to be true came from some religious ideal; they all share some core values, and frankly, atheism (out and out atheism/humanism) just hasn't been around that long. Humanist values, ethics and morality are VERY much like most religious values, ethics and morality...so if you follow them, you are quite likely to live a 'good and moral life," just like your theist neighbors.

So, go ahead....but don't for one moment think that you don't owe them...and theism...for the basis of your own values and ethics. You do.

Since this is demonstrably true, then if there really is a God Who handed those morals and ethical values to us, then just perhaps one should care that God exists because He DID give us good values to live by.

In other words, He doesn't need our buy in. WE need the 'buy in" in order to fully live our lives. Even if we don't believe in His existence, the rules, morals and standards that He (if he exists) has given us.

Of course, if He does not exist, you still owe those who believe in a deity anyway, because THEY are the folks who have codified the basic values and standards by which we all....even the non-believers...live. You may not need to believe in God in order to live a good and productive life, but if God does not exist, the theists don't need to deny that He exists in order to do the same thing.

As for me, I believe in Him because I have, in my own way, confirmed His existence. You can do as you will, but I utterly fail to understand why I should have to give up my beliefs in order to live a 'good and productive' life simply because you don't agree with me regarding His existence.


Sorry, I'm feeling more than a little testy today.

[Zzyzx]

.

Our beliefs determine our faith and our faith our actions.

I disagree. For SOME their beliefs determine their faith and their faith their actions.

Two notable exceptions: 1) the number of incarcerated Christians (as great as or greater than other groups) and the number of Christian women who have abortions (half million in US annually) indicates that their actions are not in accord with their (supposed / advertised) beliefs, 2) Those without "beliefs" or "faith" do not depend upon either to govern their actions.

So if you believe that you are an animal and all animals are equal you may start treating humans as animals.

Who has maintains or states that all animals are equal? Have you (generic term) observed anyone claiming that a fly on their coffee cup is equal to their pet dog or cat – or their neighbor human?

Humans ARE animals (consult biologists if in doubt – people who actually study such things – not religionists who take ideas from the level of understanding of nature characteristic of thousands of years ago).

Whether humans should be treated differently than other animals is a valid subject of another thread.

You could also wonder why you want to live a productive life? To me that is evidence that you believe in materialism and that having more and doing more means something.

Rather than guessing the motivations of others regarding desire to life a productive life, it would be prudent to ASK their motivation.

So it's not a matter of whether God exists but which god you follow. I like to be conscious of the God I follow and of all the gods I am aware of Jesus is the model for me.

Your personal preferences are immaterial. That some claim to "follow gods" may be significant to them but is not significant in debate.

[Deidre32]

[Replying to post 1 by Deidre32]

What if said deity sustained its existence off of belief and said deity's existence sustained the universe like a higgs field of sorts?

(Just being a devil's advocate)

I tend to think that man has made god in his image, not the other way around.

[Deidre32]

I'm an atheist but also a former Christian. Instead if asking Christians to show me evidence of god's existence (which there is no objective proof; the Bible isn't proof of anything) why not tell me and other atheists, why is believing relevant? Why should anyone care if a god exists?

If a god exists, why does he/it need my buy in?

Why is believing in a god ...necessary to living a good and productive life? (It's not but I'm interested in learning from Christians here, why they feel otherwise)

Thanks!

Define 'good and productive."

Most of the values that you hold to be true came from some religious ideal; they all share some core values, and frankly, atheism (out and out atheism/humanism) just hasn't been around that long. Humanist values, ethics and morality are VERY much like most religious values, ethics and morality...so if you follow them, you are quite likely to live a 'good and moral life," just like your theist neighbors.

So, go ahead....but don't for one moment think that you don't owe them...and theism...for the basis of your own values and ethics. You do.

Since this is demonstrably true, then if there really is a God Who handed those morals and ethical values to us, then just perhaps one should care that God exists because He DID give us good values to live by.

In other words, He doesn't need our buy in. WE need the 'buy in" in order to fully live our lives. Even if we don't believe in His existence, the rules, morals and standards that He (if he exists) has given us.

Of course, if He does not exist, you still owe those who believe in a deity anyway, because THEY are the folks who have codified the basic values and standards by which we all....even the non-believers...live. You may not need to believe in God in order to live a good and productive life, but if God does not exist, the theists don't need to deny that He exists in order to do the same thing.

As for me, I believe in Him because I have, in my own way, confirmed His existence. You can do as you will, but I utterly fail to understand why I should have to give up my beliefs in order to live a 'good and productive' life simply because you don't agree with me regarding His existence.


Sorry, I'm feeling more than a little testy today.

Lol No, I don't take it as testy.

I appreciate anyone's honesty here. I'm not asking the question in my OP to be combative. I honestly just want to know why people feel a god is relevant and why I should care?

I like how you said that you have confirmed his existence, in your own way. If more religious people spoke like that, instead of defending Christianity as an objective truth, I think it would open up the communication channels more.

Appreciate your reply!