What is the difference between magic and miracle?

[OnceConvinced]

I am presuming that god and the devil are real. I am presuming here that miracles and magic are real. They are supernatural events of some kind. They are not tricks done by shysters. They are not freak occurences as a result of luck or being in the right place at the right time.

It seems some Christians get a little offended when you use the term "magic" for deeds done by god. They seem to want to use the term "miracle". But really, what is the difference? Both appear to be a supernatural event that either involves something being generated from nothing or something changing as a result.

The only difference I can get is that a "miracle" is a supernatural event that is caused by god, while "magic" is a supernatural event caused by Satan. But really, what is the difference? How is a "miracle" different to "magic"?

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

What is the difference between magic and miracle?

The first'n there, it was a human doing it, and the second there, it was a human thinking it was a god that did it.

Magic and miracle are synonymous with, "Dangitall, ya fooled me into thinking ya actually did."

[ttruscott]

...

The only difference I can get is that a "miracle" is a supernatural event that is caused by god, while "magic" is a supernatural event caused by Satan. But really, what is the difference? How is a "miracle" different to "magic"?

NO different...

Ex 7:10 So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his officials, and it became a snake. 11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake. But Aarons staff swallowed up their staffs. 13 Yet Pharaohs heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had said.

...

except Satanic power fails before GODly power since it is a power allowed by GOD and pulled back at HIS decision.

imo
It is like spiritual power is based upon commitment. Since the persons of the Trinity are perfectly committed to each other in loving holiness, their power is perfect and complete. As the person who showed his deeper commitment by being the first to declare himself against YHWH as true deity and claimed HE was a false god telling us all lies about hell and salvation to manipulate people, Satan has the most power of the demons with the whole pantheon of demons following along behind. As well, the one who first committed himself to YHWH as his GOD and to HIS holiness fully and deeply, was the Arch Angel Michael, with Gabriel, Uriel and Raphael not far behind as the cardinal angels.

Sinners facing the power of Satan need not fear though because by faith and by HIS grace we will have HIS strength to resist the devil and make him flee. And imo, when an elect person has perfected their commitment to GOD by faith, they will be stronger than Satan due to being closer to the source of such power.

Peace, Ted

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 3:

...
imo
...

The state of the art in Christian apologetics.

I'd bother with the rest of the post, but once it is, you get that there, is there in need in it.

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to post 1 by OnceConvinced]

I think it might also be interesting to also reflect on why we non-theists will sometimes prefer to refer to "miracles" as "magic". Certainly there must be something different about the words, even to us.

But to answer the OP, I think the difference is that "miracles" specifically refer to good supernatural events, whereas "magic" is more general. That would mean that it's not incorrect to refer to God's actions as "magical", although it might not do his "goodness" proper respect.

[wiploc]

My perception is that Christians call it "miracle" if it's theirs, and "magic" if it's anybody else's.

I defer to their system: since none of it is mine, and call it all "magic."

[David the apologist]

I am presuming that god and the devil are real. I am presuming here that miracles and magic are real. They are supernatural events of some kind. They are not tricks done by shysters. They are not freak occurences as a result of luck or being in the right place at the right time.

It seems some Christians get a little offended when you use the term "magic" for deeds done by god. They seem to want to use the term "miracle". But really, what is the difference? Both appear to be a supernatural event that either involves something being generated from nothing or something changing as a result.

The only difference I can get is that a "miracle" is a supernatural event that is caused by god, while "magic" is a supernatural event caused by Satan. But really, what is the difference? How is a "miracle" different to "magic"?

C. S. Lewis grapples with these sorts of questions in his book Miracles, so if you want a really competent treatment of this issue, I refer you to him.

The short answer, however, is that miracles have a different atmosphere than magical acts. Miracles (in the NT sense) are supposed to do on a small scale and in a short period of time what God is already doing on a large scale over long periods of time - or else to foreshadow something He will do. So, for example, Circe turning Odysseus' crew into swine qualifies as "magic" because it seems so... out of place. It neither replicates natural events, nor does it foreshadow any eschatological ones. Jesus feeding the 5 000 with five loaves and two fish, on the other hand, is suggestive of the natural processes of fertility by which fish reproduce and new grain comes in each year. Hence it qualifies as a "miracle."

As you can see, this is more of a spectrum of event kinds than it is a black-and-white sharply defined division. So, for example, the cures attributed to the Roman Emperor Vespian could be classified as either magic or miracle, as while they don't seem particularly arbitrary, they also seem just a tad out of place, given that their only context appears to be that of giving divine sanction to his rise to power. There is also the somewhat subjective factor of what the individual considers to constitute "fitting in with" the themes we find in nature.

Once again, I emphasize that C. S. Lewis does a much better job of laying this all out than I do, so if it seems like there's some kernel of a real response in what I have to say, I encourage you to read Lewis' book for yourself.

[Wordleymaster1]

I am presuming that god and the devil are real. I am presuming here that miracles and magic are real. They are supernatural events of some kind. They are not tricks done by shysters. They are not freak occurences as a result of luck or being in the right place at the right time.

It seems some Christians get a little offended when you use the term "magic" for deeds done by god. They seem to want to use the term "miracle". But really, what is the difference? Both appear to be a supernatural event that either involves something being generated from nothing or something changing as a result.

The only difference I can get is that a "miracle" is a supernatural event that is caused by god, while "magic" is a supernatural event caused by Satan. But really, what is the difference? How is a "miracle" different to "magic"?

A miracle is magic from God, which is considered 'good'. All other magic is bad. At least that's how I've been trained by the church
Common sense says there's no real difference other than where you think the magic comes from

[Wootah]

From Post 3:

...
imo
...

The state of the art in Christian apologetics.

I'd bother with the rest of the post, but once it is, you get that there, is there in need in it.

Moderator Comment
Hi Joey,

Unfortunately on a debate site we have to debate and often it's the same arguments over and over again. Please don't make blanket statements and do bother to debate when you post or don't post and leave it to others.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[bishblaize]

[Replying to post 1 by OnceConvinced]

The real issue here is that words are complex, and ultimately limited.

In terms of simply describing incredible feats that defy rational explanation, perhaps being caused by some 'other' force, then the two in theory are interchangeable.

However the term magic in most people's minds has become attached to paganism or perhaps the occult, while miracle has become attached to the mainstream 'good' religions (i use the word 'good' advisedly, but I hope you get my meaning).

Hence the term magic has become pejorative when used to talk about religions, while miracle has not. To describe Jesus' miracles as magic is to connect him in the mind of the reader with something that is non-christian, or even anti-christian.