whatsit wrote:
i'm sure this topic has cropped up before, but let's assume it hasn't.
recently, the following was posted in the ramblings forum:
8. Yeah. We eat trout, salmon, deer, pheasant, quail and elk. If you really want sushi and caviar it's available at the corner bait shop.
(Q) if we do manage to totally excise god from society, what does the above mean for humanity?
whether you want to admit it or not, each of us is capable of murder.
what would keep us from an outright slaughter?
you can't use we are somehow different or special from animals, without a god that's ALL we are, mere animals.
please, no assumptions, do not assume our morality will remain without a god unless it can be shown otherwise, as in some kind of controlled experiment.
whether you want to admit it or not, each of us is capable of murder.
If that is true, then it is equally true whether or not we believe in a God. Do you think you are morally better than I am?
what would keep us from an outright slaughter?
Can't believe anyone would ask such a question. For the most part, the belief that murder is wrong, and a complete disinclination to murder in the first place. For the few that might wish to murder, our laws and law enforcement. God doesn't come into it, unless you are seriously trying to tell me that the only reason you don't murder is because your God told you not to. That seems to be what you are saying.
Is that what you are saying? Keep in mind also, that throughout history, and including today, there are many murders done in the name of people's God. The evidence is completely clear. We don't need belief in a God to be moral, and in some cases belief in a God specifically leads to
immoral behaviour. And if we were to use the examples of rape and murder described in the Bible as our guide, we would all be very immoral indeed.
you can't use we are somehow different or special from animals, without a god that's ALL we are, mere animals.
Um, sorry to tell you, but actually we are all animals, albeit we just happen to be the species that has evolved to have the highest intelligence. However, any naive believe that we are somehow fundamentally different to other species is just that, naive. An on morality, history and observation shows that humans morality is no better on average than other animals, and often worse.
please, no assumptions, do not assume our morality will remain without a god unless it can be shown otherwise, as in some kind of controlled experiment.
I don't need to make any assumptions whatsoever. It is an observed fact that on average, atheists are no less moral either philosphically or behaviourally than those that believe in God(s). End of story. I suggest that the Templeton Foundation (or yourself, if really interested) do a study to see if God-believing people are under or over represented in prisons. I'll place a bet with you that there are proportionally less atheists. However, the reason that is likely to be true is not because of moral superiority of atheiests per se, but because on average atheists tend to be better educated and better off socio-economically, and therefore have less need or reason to steal and commit crimes, and less reason to feel angry against society. So, feel very free to do some proper research on this, but I doubt you'll like what you find.
I'll also mention, that as a matter of fact, we do not derive our morals from the Bible. Have you actually read and understood the Bible? Yes, there is good morality in there that we can choose and pick (using our inbuilt sense of morality that is present in most people independent of religious belief), but overall the Bible is an apallingingly immoral, bloddthirsty raping, murdurous, inconsistent piece of fascinating literature.
