Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

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rikuoamero
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Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #1

Post by rikuoamero »

This is going to be short and sweet. In the past six months on this site, I have talked with many a person. Some people say they communicate or hear or receive information from an all knowing god.
When debating the subject with them, they offer no reasonable answer as to why only they can hear this entity yet I or other non-believers cannot, despite my assertion to prior belief in this entity.
So I'm going to make a safe assumption. I will take it as safe since it has never happened. The assumption is that I will never hear directly or communicate with this all knowing entity.
Running with that, my challenge to those who claim to communicate with this being or hear it, is to repeat the sentence that is written on a sheet of paper in my drawer.
Yes, I've made this challenge before, but I thought I'd make it the focus of a thread all its own.
This sheet of paper has a detail about my life that is embarrassing. I have never told it to anyone. I am willing to risk it becoming public.

There is of course the problem of "What if someone DOES give you the line, but you refuse to acknowledge it?" Suffice to say, trust me on this that I am being sincere when I promise that if someone does say it, I will acknowledge it.
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by rikuoamero]

Request for further information. What is the QUESTION FOR DEBATE? From what I can gather it's "Do magic tricks work? " but I could be mistaken.

Also you claim to have written on a piece of paper, can you provide verifiable proof that you have and that what you have written on it is actually true. My understanding of debating is that people not make assersions that they cannot prove. Relevant evidence and proof of the paper and life expériences would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #3

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]
My understanding is that in debate people are not to make assersions that they cannot prove.
That is indeed what this challenge is all about. Some people on this site have made assertions that they communicate with an all knowing being, but have not to date proven it. Here I am asking them to do just that. From the tone of your response, it seems that you take umbrage when I claim to write on a piece of paper, but you do not take umbrage with those who claim to hear or talk with/to an all knowing being.
Strange that.

As for "prove my sheet of paper"...what would would satisfy you? A photo? How would you know that a photo I put up is indeed of the sheet of paper in question?
All I can say is that it is an easy matter for me to get out a pen and paper, and to write a detail about my life. I said embarrassing, but not public life embarrassing. This isn't a detail that would cause all who know me to desert me.
It's just a quirk about me that I've never told anyone that would be slightly embarrassing if other people knew.

JW, I want to ask you why you are so skeptical of me writing on a sheet of paper, of me risking a detail of me going public. On the one hand, I applaud your skepticism. On the other, it seems in my view to be misplaced. What is so extraordinary about writing on a piece of paper? Why are you not skeptical towards your own religious beliefs, towards the claims of people on this site who say they talk to god. You demand evidence for my sheet of paper, but do not when it comes to your religious beliefs.
I want to ask this, but I don't really want to. I want this thread to be about the challenge.
I will not be responding any further unless I get an actual correct answer to the challenge.
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

rikuoamero wrote:That is indeed what this challenge is all about.
I didn't ask what the challenge is about, I asked what the question for debate is.


JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #5

Post by rikuoamero »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
rikuoamero wrote:That is indeed what this challenge is all about.
I didn't ask what the challenge is about, I asked what the question for debate is.


JW
Fine, in question format, I'd word it to be
"Are you in communication with or do you hear an all knowing being? If so, can you answer this challenge?"
Happy?
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #6

Post by Peds nurse »

[Replying to post 1 by rikuoamero]

Hello Rikuoamero!

I appreciate your challenge to those who hear the voice of God. I would like to politely point out, that there is a huge difference between ESP, and the voice of God. They are not one in the same.

The Spirit (voice) of God, works in the lives of those who love Him, and are called to His purpose. It is not a voice of reason or sound, but of love and Spirit, working with God to call His people to His perfect will. There is no proof that I can give you that God's Spirit is working in my life, no more than I have proof that you have anything but socks and underwear in your drawer.

Thanks Rikuoamero...always fun!

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Re: Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #7

Post by Divine Insight »

Peds nurse wrote: The Spirit (voice) of God, works in the lives of those who love Him, and are called to His purpose.
There are several problems with this.

First off, based on this ideology we would need to attribute to everyone who is inspired to love the "voice of God", including all loving people from all religions and even loving people who are passionate supporters of an atheistic world view.

Secondly, if we are going to go with this, then it only makes sense that we also imagine every who is motivated to do unloving things must then be influenced by the "voice" of an evil spirit (Satan in the Abrahamic religions).

So we end up with a situation where humans are reduced to nothing more than marionette puppets being basically told what to do by either a good or evil supernatural puppet master.

Finally, where is free will in all of this? Where is personal character? This seems to rob any and all humans of having any ability to love on their own.

This is also extremely problematic and circular in a religion where it is claimed that we are to "Love God". What could that possibly mean if the only source of love is God himself? If that's the case then it would be impossible for us to love God since we are incapable of love on our own. At best, all that could possibly happen is that God could inspire us to love him. That would be pretty circular love.

If you claim to love Jesus, but you can only love if God inspired within you a desire to love, then we would basically have Jesus loving himself through you in some strange marionette doll fashion.

It seems to me that it's not going to help this religion by suggesting that humans aren't capable of being the source of the love they have to offer others.

And if they are capable of loving others on their own, then wouldn't those who actually need "the voice of God" to inspire them to love others actually be the ones who are handicapped?

I've always held the position that no one could please a loving Fatherly God more than a loving atheist. Why? Because a loving atheist is guaranteed to be a loving person in their right with no ulterior motives. They don't even believe that God exists at all yet they choose to love others based on the sovereignty of their own being.

There can be no question that their love is coming from their own sovereign soul.
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Re: Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #8

Post by Peds nurse »

The Spirit (voice) of God, works in the lives of those who love Him, and are called to His purpose.[/quote]
DI wrote:There are several problems with this.

First off, based on this ideology we would need to attribute to everyone who is inspired to love the "voice of God", including all loving people from all religions and even loving people who are passionate supporters of an atheistic world view.
DI, we meet again! It's fun though, and I appreciate you :-)

That isn't what I said DI. I said for those who love God, and specifically the Christian God. I do love to hear His voice....at least most of the time. Sometimes God can be bossy :-)
DI wrote:Secondly, if we are going to go with this, then it only makes sense that we also imagine every who is motivated to do unloving things must then be influenced by the "voice" of an evil spirit (Satan in the Abrahamic religions).
I don't understand this reasoning, so please explain.
DI wrote:So we end up with a situation where humans are reduced to nothing more than marionette puppets being basically told what to do by either a good or evil supernatural puppet master.
Not really. What we have is....those who love God and hear His voice, and those who don't.
DI wrote:Finally, where is free will in all of this? Where is personal character? This seems to rob any and all humans of having any ability to love on their own.
Oh DI, this is so far from the truth. I have come to realize, that I don't much like the God that you claim to not like either. We agree...HOORAY!!!!

I do love the God of the Bible. He gives us free will, and a purpose. We have a personality D.I. We laugh, we love, we cry, we get frustrated, and we even bleed!! Loving Him helps me love others more deeply than I ever could imagine. We can love people apart from God DI, but my experience is that it is pretty easy to love the people we like, much harder to love those that rub us the wrong way. God helps me to love everyone.
DI wrote:This is also extremely problematic and circular in a religion where it is claimed that we are to "Love God". What could that possibly mean if the only source of love is God himself? If that's the case then it would be impossible for us to love God since we are incapable of love on our own. At best, all that could possibly happen is that God could inspire us to love him. That would be pretty circular love.
We receive love from other people DI. My husband loves me, my children love me. We love God, and when we do, it is a life changing, living love. It is a love of action and belief.
DI wrote:If you claim to love Jesus, but you can only love if God inspired within you a desire to love, then we would basically have Jesus loving himself through you in some strange marionette doll fashion.
I never said that you could not love apart from God. I do claim to love Jesus...very, very, much. He helps me to love others with a love I could not manage on my own.
DI wrote:It seems to me that it's not going to help this religion by suggesting that humans aren't capable of being the source of the love they have to offer others.
Once again, people can love apart from God. Do you think that atheists don't fall in love or marry?
DI wrote:And if they are capable of loving others on their own, then wouldn't those who actually need "the voice of God" to inspire them to love others actually be the ones who are handicapped?
No not at all. I don't need the voice of God to tell me to love people DI. He does help me to love them so much better than I could on my own. In the Bible, it says to love God and love others. We are being obedient to His word.
DI wrote:I've always held the position that no one could please a loving Fatherly God more than a loving atheist. Why? Because a loving atheist is guaranteed to be a loving person in their right with no ulterior motives. They don't even believe that God exists at all yet they choose to love others based on the sovereignty of their own being.
That is a beautiful thing, I will not disagree. Love no matter how you slice it is good. As long as it is a healthy love.
DI wrote:There can be no question that their love is coming from their own sovereign soul.
Atheists believe they have souls? I wasn't aware....good information!

Thanks DI

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Re: Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #9

Post by Divine Insight »

Peds nurse wrote: Once again, people can love apart from God. Do you think that atheists don't fall in love or marry?
Do you believe there is "no God" for atheists just because they don't believe in a God?

I'm conversing with you based on your beliefs. It can't be that there exists a God for you, but not for the atheists. Either there is a God, or there isn't.
Peds nurse wrote:
DI wrote:
There can be no question that their love is coming from their own sovereign soul.
Atheists believe they have souls? I wasn't aware....good information!
Sure, atheists have a right to call their basic human existence a "soul" if they want to. The only difference between their concept of a "soul" and the theist's concept of a "soul" is that the atheists accept that its a fleeting temporary condition, whilst the theists believe that some higher power will perpetuate their "soul" for eternity.

In fact, for a theist to proclaim that an atheist has no "soul" should be considered the most hateful remark possible.

Having said this some atheists do passionately argue that they don't believe in a "soul". But that's only because theists have claimed the patent rights to the concept and demand that a "soul" must be eternal or supernatural.

Obviously human semantics is a breeding ground for much disagreement and divisiveness. And that's truly ironic since we originally invented language and semantics as a means of facilitating communication. But it has grown to become a weapon where words are used as swords, and dictionaries are used as heavy artillery to assure certain devastation should anyone even attempt to try to convey an original thought.

But if we allow the term "soul" to simply refer to a truly sovereign entity, AND we allow that mortal humans do indeed have free will and are therefore sovereign entities, then even atheists who's soul will die with their body still have a "soul (i.e. an underlying sovereignty entity of free will thought and action)

So yes, these terms can be difficult to discuss, especially if standard dictionaries are permitted on the front lines to blow to smithereens any free will thought as I have expressed above. ;)
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Re: Open Challenge to Those who say they hear God

Post #10

Post by catnip »

rikuoamero wrote: This is going to be short and sweet. In the past six months on this site, I have talked with many a person. Some people say they communicate or hear or receive information from an all knowing god.
When debating the subject with them, they offer no reasonable answer as to why only they can hear this entity yet I or other non-believers cannot, despite my assertion to prior belief in this entity.
So I'm going to make a safe assumption. I will take it as safe since it has never happened. The assumption is that I will never hear directly or communicate with this all knowing entity.
Running with that, my challenge to those who claim to communicate with this being or hear it, is to repeat the sentence that is written on a sheet of paper in my drawer.
Yes, I've made this challenge before, but I thought I'd make it the focus of a thread all its own.
This sheet of paper has a detail about my life that is embarrassing. I have never told it to anyone. I am willing to risk it becoming public.

There is of course the problem of "What if someone DOES give you the line, but you refuse to acknowledge it?" Suffice to say, trust me on this that I am being sincere when I promise that if someone does say it, I will acknowledge it.
There are a couple of problems with this.

1) As Peds Nurse points out, ESP is not the same as "the voice of God", which isn't really a voice of God, anyway. But I have tuned in myself to a couple of different people and scared them half-out-of-their-wits. I did this easily enough, actually. Once I did that, I noted a particular tendency for these people to keep a wide birth when they were around me. It makes people very uncomfortable. In short, I have ESP and some pre-cognition.

2) IF God would be inclined to inform a person about another EGO, it would still be wrong as scripture does say, "You are not to put the Lord, your God, to the test." About your personality, the thing you think you are--you aren't. The real person you are is your God-self, in scripture, your "spirit". Now, you may deny you have one . . . but what I am telling you is that the EGO I meet is not the person you are.

If my ESP kicks in, I'll let you know. lol

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