Telling stories

[Zzyzx]

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Telling stories

Religions in general appear to be based upon people telling / writing stories about supernatural entities and events – and other people believing the stories and adding more of their own stories, testimonials and opinions.

Are there any exceptions?

Is it unreasonable to ask to be shown that the stories are true?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]




[center]Truth or Illusion:
Part One[/center]

Telling stories

Religions in general appear to be based upon people telling / writing stories about supernatural entities and events – and other people believing the stories and adding more of their own stories, testimonials and opinions.

Are there any exceptions?

Is it unreasonable to ask to be shown that the stories are true?

I really like your "Gone with the wind" example.
I think we can agree that LOTS of that book is the "truth". But is it unreasonable to ask to be shown that the story is true? - I say; "Of course not."

But then again, I have SKEPTICISM that "Gone with the wind" is a true story. Those who would base their entire LIFE on the story being true.. and in fact, the TRUEST story there could possibly be, might NOT be so skeptical.

To some, asking about the truth of their beliefs is an outright insult.

But.. what IS truth?

"If we are seriously concerned with the question of truth, it is hardly possible
to ignore how we use the words 'truth' and 'true'. And it is equally
difficult to overlook that we use these words in quite different ways, for
instance when I say that it is true that "That person over there is my friend
Joe," and then add that "Joe is a true friend.""

Between Truth and Illusion . Predrag Cicovacki

Who KNOWS what religious people are really talking about?
And for the record, I can't think of any religion that doesn't include some form of supernatural element or the other.

I am toying with being a "Taoist"... and in that intellectual exercise, one can describe "The Way" anyway one chooses. In fact, followers are cautioned to NOT describe "The Way", for they say "The way that can be described is not The Way. "

Hmmm. I'm such a rebel, that I go out of my way to describe my version of "The Way". Thinking of Frank Sinatra here.

Bless his soul.

[ttruscott]

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Telling stories

Religions in general appear to be based upon people telling / writing stories about supernatural entities and events – and other people believing the stories and adding more of their own stories, testimonials and opinions.

Are there any exceptions?

Is it unreasonable to ask to be shown that the stories are true?

Does Matthew 12:39 He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. speak to this that it is not part of His chosen method to provide proof to those with no faith?

[Zzyzx]

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Telling stories

Religions in general appear to be based upon people telling / writing stories about supernatural entities and events – and other people believing the stories and adding more of their own stories, testimonials and opinions.

Are there any exceptions?

Is it unreasonable to ask to be shown that the stories are true?

Does Matthew 12:39 He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah". speak to this that it is not part of His chosen method to provide proof to those with no faith?

Excellent example of my point: 'people believing the stories and adding more of their own stories, testimonials and opinions.'

Believers quote the stories as though they were true -- but seem unable to SHOW the stories are anything other than imagination of ancient religion promoters.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Are you asking about religions that make no mention of the supernatural? Isn't that rather like asking for cookbooks that make no mention of food?

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Are you asking about religions that make no mention of the supernatural? Isn't that rather like asking for cookbooks that make no mention of food?

Well, technically, many cookbooks make no mention of food:



I actually quite like this one, it's saved me a lot of work:

Perl Cookbook: Solutions & Examples for Perl Programmers

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 5 by JehovahsWitness]

Are you asking about religions that make no mention of the supernatural? Isn't that rather like asking for cookbooks that make no mention of food?

We atheists get to hear such gems as "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist".
And "atheism is a religion"

On and on we get to hear those kinds of ideas.

I think I remember one theist ( I can't recall precisely ) saying something like science is a religion.

I'm not too sure that Buddhism or Taoism necessarily need anything supernatural. At least, not so much the Zen variety of Buddhism, anyway. Taoism has "the Way" but that can't even be DESCRIBED in Taoism, it's just "a mystery" or some sort. ( I'm a kind of a Taoist, and a skeptic AND an agnostic AND an atheist, by the way, all compatible positions, not many of which include the supernatural, let me tell ya )

And the converse is true as well.. I have met quite a few people who were supernaturalists .. and not at all religious. Weird, huh?

Language is SO very flexible that way.

What's a religion?
What's the supernatural?

Yeah.. words, slippery bunch.
We have to assign meaning to them.. so that they can stand STILL for a second or two. That's where critical thinking and philosophy kicks in.

But oh oh, watch out !
Both demand evidence.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 7 by Blastcat]


Yes but I'm still not clear what you are asking when you say "Are there any exceptions?" ... is that are there any religions that do not deal with the supernatural?

[Realworldjack]

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Telling stories

Religions in general appear to be based upon people telling / writing stories about supernatural entities and events – and other people believing the stories and adding more of their own stories, testimonials and opinions.

Are there any exceptions?

Is it unreasonable to ask to be shown that the stories are true?

It is true that the Bible contains stories of a Supernatural Entity, and events. However, the overwhelming majority of the Bible is unconcerned with such things. In fact, there are two books in the Bible that never mention God at all, which would be "Esther" and "The Song of Solomon."

The point is, these folks who authored the things contained in the Bible seem to be attempting to write about real history, and the things that occurred, and if these things included, God, and the miraculous, then they recorded it, and if it did not they were silent. In other words, the Bible is not a continuous story, only about God, and the miraculous.

The next thing I will point out is the fact that, when we arrive to the New Testament, we do not find books, but what we rather find is letters. The authors of these letters had only one particular audience in mind, and were unconcerned, and unaware, that anyone else would read these letters, other than the intended audience. In other words, these authors were not attempting to promote their ideas, and opinions, rather they were attempting to teach those who already claimed to believe, not being concerned whatsoever, if there may be those outside who may read, and not believe.

The above clearly demonstrates that the authors of these letters were simply living out their lives, and these letters are the product of their lives. So then, when we say, "Religions in general appear to be based upon people telling / writing stories about supernatural entities and events", the question seems to be, what religion is based upon claimed events, recorded by multiple folks, throughout thousands of years?

There is a tremendous amount to consider concerning Christianity, and to simply say, "it is based upon people telling stories" does not really take into account all that would need to be considered, in my opinion.

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 9 by Realworldjack]

Jack, I appreciate what you say.

Does it make a difference if the stories and letters are truthful, accurate, um-embellished, un-distorted accounts of events that literally happened in the real world?

Since we are aware that people often misinterpret, distort, exaggerate or fabricate what they write or say, how can we determine if Bible writers are not among them?

Edited to add: The people who compiled the anthology that became known as the Bible selected stories / letters / writings that fit their preconceived notions or opinions. Can they be trusted to have chosen accurate and representative descriptions of events and conversations?