How Hard is the O.T.?

[liamconnor]

We've all been in situations where the impossible was required of us and when we could not perform, we suffered the consequences...right? And of course the consequences don't fit the crime, because the crime was almost inevitable.

Many complain about the consequences imposed on 'sins' by the O.T. They are deemed barbaric.

But rarely do we hear the question, Was the expectation ridiculous? I mean, "What is so hard about not committing adultery?" or "What was so hard about not gathering sticks that Saturday?"


Question for debate: of all the O.T. commandments which were breached by someone in the O.T. and thereby triggered the prescribed consequences, which of them were impossible in their expectations?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 19 by JehovahsWitness]

How hard was the OT? How long is a piece of string! It all depends on ones inclinations.

No, but you have characterized the problem:

How long is a piece of string?
You don't know until you measure it.

How hard is the OT?
You don't know until you examine it.

I am not going to beat a dead horse, as it has been measured:
By slavery endorsement.
By terracide.
By many many atrocities.

When we measure it, hard is not the appropriate metric.

[bluethread]

"What was so hard about not gathering sticks that Saturday?"

Interesting you should mention that one, because as we know it's not so much about picking up sticks it's about working on the Sabbath which God condemns.

The gathering sticks example shows us a lot though, because it shows us that even the most petty little thing we do on the Sabbath could deem us worthy of a stoning in God's eyes. The tricky part working out what can we do on the Sabbath and what can't we? If picking up sticks is considered an atrocity on God's day then what about preparing food for ourselves? What about picking up rubbish? What about cleaning up a pile of puke?

That is a good question. At the time, they were living as hunter/gatherers. That was their work. Also, this was not a one off, blind side, situation. The entire community had just been admonished for looking to gather manna on Shabbat. This person knew what he was doing was ordinary work and, even though he may have rationalized it as no big deal, he did it anyway. This also caused the entire community to question whether the law meant what it said. This wasn't just some kid dragging a stick behind him because he was bored. With regard to saving a life, or dealing with an emergency, Yeshua points out that had long been worked out by the Rabbi's. they just were not very equitable in applying the principle of doing good on Shabbat.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 22 by bluethread]

The entire community had just been admonished for looking to gather manna on Shabbat.

So killing a man for gathering sticks on a Saturday is justified because the Big Cheese had told them not to?

That's just tyranny...plain and simple.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 22 by bluethread]

The entire community had just been admonished for looking to gather manna on Shabbat.

So killing a man for gathering sticks on a Saturday is justified because the Big Cheese had told them not to?

That's just tyranny...plain and simple.

If one were just talking about a human beings, that concept applies. However, do you use the term tyranny when you talk about how humans treat cows?

[Zzyzx]

.

[Replying to post 22 by bluethread]

The entire community had just been admonished for looking to gather manna on Shabbat.

So killing a man for gathering sticks on a Saturday is justified because the Big Cheese had told them not to?

That's just tyranny...plain and simple.

If one were just talking about a human beings, that concept applies. However, do you use the term tyranny when you talk about how humans treat cows?

Cows don't tend to pick up sticks on ANY day -- but do often eat vegetative matter most days.

Are they 'sinning' and deserving to death for that offense against gods?

Humans, being omnivores often eat cows -- no gods, sinning, tyranny required.

[bluethread]

Cows don't tend to pick up sticks on ANY day -- but do often eat vegetative matter most days.

Are they 'sinning' and deserving to death for that offense against gods?

Humans, being omnivores often eat cows -- no gods, sinning, tyranny required.

Humans kill, and yes eat, cows that break out to pasture when they are not supposed to. Is that tyranny?

[Zzyzx]

.

Cows don't tend to pick up sticks on ANY day -- but do often eat vegetative matter most days.

Are they 'sinning' and deserving to death for that offense against gods?

Humans, being omnivores often eat cows -- no gods, sinning, tyranny required.

Humans kill, and yes eat, cows that break out to pasture when they are not supposed to. Is that tyranny?

Humans raise cows to EAT. Nearly every cow seen contentedly grazing in a pasture WILL end its life in a slaughterhouse (and not die of old age or natural causes).

Tyranny? Perhaps so to cow lovers -- but not to BBQ lovers?

What has any of that to do with the OT being 'hard'?

[marco]

So killing a man for gathering sticks on a Saturday is justified because the Big Cheese had told them not to?

That's just tyranny...plain and simple.

Did you suppose Yahweh operated a democracy, riku? Adam discovered you don't cross the Lord with impunity; Lot's wife realised -momentarily - that when he says NO he means NO. The kids who laughed at Elisha found that Yahweh has no sense of humour.

[Friedrich]

.

Not committing having sex with your neighbours donkey might be a terrible imposition if one is so inclined.

It is indeed fortunate that religious people have rules that tell them to avoid sex with donkeys.

Many of us have no need for such rules -- and many of us are not obsessed with sex or the sex lives of others. Perhaps that explains part of why we are not theistic.

Are you saying that it is okay to have sex with donkeys?

Seems to me that if there is no rule about it, then it is fine.

[benchwarmer]

.

Not committing having sex with your neighbours donkey might be a terrible imposition if one is so inclined.

It is indeed fortunate that religious people have rules that tell them to avoid sex with donkeys.

Many of us have no need for such rules -- and many of us are not obsessed with sex or the sex lives of others. Perhaps that explains part of why we are not theistic.

Are you saying that it is okay to have sex with donkeys?

Seems to me that if there is no rule about it, then it is fine.

Are you trying to tell us that if there were no rules against it you would be looking for the closest donkey? Some of us don't need the 'rules' of ancient societies to figure out who or what we can have sex with.

It almost seems like the religious have desires to have sex with everything in sight and are only held in check because of rules they find in their holy books. Not all of us require threats of eternal punishment to figure out the concept of consensual sex.