Why Do Christians Need the Bible?

[Joe Blackbird]

Here are my questions for debate:

1-If all of creation testifies to the truth of the Bible, why then, if we throw away the Bible and study only nature, is there nothing in nature that would convert someone to Christianity if they had no prior knowledge of it?

2-Why do Christians even use the Bible if all of creation is a witness to the truth of Christianity?

3-Why even try to proselytize if this truth is self-evident?

4-Why dont Bibles grow on trees, or hatch from eggs? Why, if the God who made all of creation inspired it into existence, does the Bible require human processing to exist at all when God allegedly made everything else himself?

[BigChrisfilm]

Here are my questions for debate:

1-If all of creation testifies to the truth of the Bible, why then, if we throw away the Bible and study only nature, is there nothing in nature that would convert someone to Christianity if they had no prior knowledge of it?

God's word saves. Nothing else in this world can save someone. Creation testifies to the truth. But you have to know what the truth is before you can see evidence for it. The bible doesn't profess anything worldly to bring one to Christ. Only the bible makes such a claim.

2-Why do Christians even use the Bible if all of creation is a witness to the truth of Christianity?

Because we have to know what Christianity is. If you watch a movie. You know it was edited on a movie editor, but how do you know which one if you don't first study the editor, and then look at the evidence?

3-Why even try to proselytize if this truth is self-evident?

Because nature doesn't convert anyone. It is only the evidence that something is right. Like I said, you can't look at the evidence first, you look at something, THEN you look for evidence.

4-Why dont Bibles grow on trees, or hatch from eggs? Why, if the God who made all of creation inspired it into existence, does the Bible require human processing to exist at all when God allegedly made everything else himself?

That is a silly question. lol. Because God wants man to be involved in his creation I guess. Not just a slave to it. If a bird pooped out a bible, we wouldn't have much choice to believe it now would we?

[juliod]

Creation testifies to the truth. But you have to know what the truth is before you can see evidence for it.

A wonderful statement. You have to know the truth first, then seek evidence to support your pre-determined conclusions. You are the first theist I've met (or debated) who is honest enough to admit that.

Problem is, that process guarantees error.

DanZ

[bernee51]

Creation testifies to the truth. But you have to know what the truth is before you can see evidence for it.

A wonderful statement. You have to know the truth first, then seek evidence to support your pre-determined conclusions. You are the first theist I've met (or debated) who is honest enough to admit that.

Problem is, that process guarantees error.

DanZ

The wonder of his comment is only compounded by the fact that I do not believe he truly understood what he was saying.

[McCulloch]

Creation testifies to the truth. But you have to know what the truth is before you can see evidence for it.

A wonderful statement. You have to know the truth first, then seek evidence to support your pre-determined conclusions. You are the first theist I've met (or debated) who is honest enough to admit that.

This is what I think that BigChrisfilm was driving at:

Creation testifies to the truth. You have to understand that particular aspect of truth before you are ready for further truth regarding salvation. Arithmetic before Calculus.

[juliod]

I do not believe he truly understood what he was saying.

That's a bit unfair. I think he really does understand it, and really believes it. I think he's the first christian I've debated who can put his beliefs quite so clearly.

What I think he doesn't understand is that he is staking out a clearly gnostic position. This is the third statement he's made that aligns with gnosticism.

DanZ

[BigChrisfilm]

I do not believe he truly understood what he was saying.

That's a bit unfair. I think he really does understand it, and really believes it. I think he's the first christian I've debated who can put his beliefs quite so clearly.

What I think he doesn't understand is that he is staking out a clearly gnostic position. This is the third statement he's made that aligns with gnosticism.

DanZ

I don't believe in Gnostism. I was given revelation, I suppose you could call it that. I was baptised, and when I came up, I was a different person, with different beliefs, and different understanding. But this is purely for me, and not for everyone. Some get Tounges, some cry, I got something very valuable to me.

[melikio]

4-Why dont Bibles grow on trees, or hatch from eggs? Why, if the God who made all of creation inspired it into existence, does the Bible require human processing to exist at all when God allegedly made everything else himself?

No; this is NOT a "silly" question.

I don't have a perfect answer, but ANY answer I could give would be based upon my "faith" in what is capable of explaining it to my heart.

For God (if He who I'm thinking of is truly capable of anything), could have ended the arguments which have gone on for so very long.

A LOT of screwy things have been done TO and BECAUSE OF people not understanding who they are or where they come from...etc. In fact, I have a set of "silly" questions for God; I don't even ask people (humans), because they either DO NOT have the real answers, or I likely won't understand them anyway (been there, done that so many times).

I am left with "faith" to explain the question which my heart CAN indeed ask. Those questions and answers DO NOT necessarily translate/transfer to other human beings. It's easy to dismiss or minimize something to silliness in one's mind; but questions of the HEART (at he core of who/what we may be, aren't so easy to disregard or deflect.

Now, I'm not an atheist, but I can relate because I've never had "perfect" belief in all of this some say I should believe. Life has shown me questions which I cannot dismiss, and others which I have allowed "faith" to satisfy. And just because the parameters of an inquiry may not make much sense (based upon what we know or THINK we know), it's not necessarily non-sensical or "silly".

How many times have we all laughed at something we thought was humorous/silly, only to find later that it was as serious and sensible as the air we were breathing?

-Mel-

[Joe Blackbird]

4-Why dont Bibles grow on trees, or hatch from eggs? Why, if the God who made all of creation inspired it into existence, does the Bible require human processing to exist at all when God allegedly made everything else himself?

That is a silly question. lol. Because God wants man to be involved in his creation I guess. Not just a slave to it. If a bird pooped out a bible, we wouldn't have much choice to believe it now would we?

Is my question silly, or is the method of transmitting what Christians claim is the single most important truth in the universe in a man made book rather than in nature? I realize it sounds absurd, but think about it.

[Joe Blackbird]

No; this is NOT a "silly" question...
How many times have we all laughed at something we thought was humorous/silly, only to find later that it was as serious and sensible as the air we were breathing?

Mel, I am so grateful for your presence at this site. You are truly one of the most reasonable and open-minded Christians I have ever had the pleasure of talking with. I think you really got the gist of what I was trying to say here. The language was meant to sound absurd, but only because I wanted to illustrate how absurd the claim itself was. It is true that the things we take for granted are often the most profound.