Giving Up Sin to be a Christian

[Jagella]

Many Christian apologists tend to get a bit frustrated with the skeptics. All of the apologists' arguments and evidence often just don't convince many atheists and other unbelievers. How can those arguments and evidences fail to convince? So often the only answer to this question rests on the belief that the skeptics must be unwilling to give up their sin to become Christians. So...

Question for Debate: What sin might any of you unbelievers need to give up to become Christians?

Personally, I suppose I would need to give up swearing, cursing, and looking at porn although I know it's common for Christians to indulge in these sins.

[07-07-07]

I put it to you that you cannot demonstrate that "it" came from any version of "God".

I have proof, and lots of it; you're the one who is lacking. So, your lack of evidence does not change anything. Meanwhile, you are taking the discussion off course: Giving Up Sin to be a Christian. To have such a discussion, one must accept the fact that the Holy Bible is God's word.

[07-07-07]

That's why it's pointless to debate with people who deny God's word.

That's exactly right. I have absolutely no reason to believe that Hebrew mythology represents the word of any God.

Not only this but you seem to have forgotten (or never realized), that this ancient mythology is the basis for all factions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Clearly they all cannot be the inspired word of God because they disagree on what this God has supposedly said. So if you are a "Christian" then you are in denial of "God's Word" according to Judaism, and Islam. Not only this, but since Christianity itself is a self-divided and self-conflicting collection of Christian disagreeing factions, even Christianity doesn't agree with itself.

Which Christianity have you embraced as representing the "Word of God"?

Catholicism?
Or one of the disagreeing factions of Protestantism that have protested against the Body of Christ which is Catholicism?

You can hardly claim that it's pointless to debate with people who deny God's Word, when you are necessarily among them. If you deny the Islamic Qur'an then you are the one who is denying "God's Word".

That's how that works.

This entire religious paradigm was never anything more than political propaganda being held up in the name of an imaginary God. A God that clearly does not exist.

In fact, here's an example from Christianity (in case this is the faction you believe in)

Mark 16:
[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
[18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


Can you drink any deadly thing and it won't hurt you?
Can you lay your hands on the sick and have them recover?

You know that you can't do either of these things.

Therefore, according to Mark you either don't believe in Jesus, or Mark is lying.

So what are you going to do? Toss Mark out as being an obvious fake?

I might add that once you start doing this you'll end up tossing out the entire Biblical Canon before too long.

You're out of your league because your lack of experience does not demonstrate anything except that you have no experience. These things are beyond you because you are dead in trespasses and sins. Meanwhile, you too have hijacked the discussion from its original purpose: Giving Up Sin to be a Christian

[Divine Insight]

You're out of your league because your lack of experience does not demonstrate anything except that you have no experience. These things are beyond you because you are dead in trespasses and sins. Meanwhile, you too have hijacked the discussion from its original purpose: Giving Up Sin to be a Christian

Well, you were the one who changed the topic to being about proving the scriptures are the "Word of God". Clearly you can't do that. Yet, it was you yourself who had proclaimed that proving that to be a fact was paramount.

Clearly you can't do that.

In terms of giving up sin to be a Christian this idea is ridiculous.

I have no sins to give up. And yet I don't believe in Hebrew mythology.

However, if giving up sins is all that it takes to become a Christian, then I'm obviously already a Christian, by that definition.

Now if you want to claim that I cannot be sinless, then you can only hold this to be true if you confess that it is also true for you. But if it's true for you, then you cannot claim to have given up your sins to become a Christian.

So it seems that you are the one who has an impossible position to defend.

By the way you are not in any position to be making claims about people that you know nothing about:

These things are beyond you because you are dead in trespasses and sins.

You don't even know who you are talking to. Making false accusations about other people is actually a crime known as "slander".

In fact, from a Biblical perspective I believe it's called "Bearing false witness against your neighbor".

Have you read the words of Jesus cited by Luke 6:37?

If not, I suggest that you should go read that before you continue to judge others to be dead in their sins.

[Jagella]

There is nothing to 'give up' because each and every Christian who is true-born of God still sins.

Yes. I've noticed that Christians sin. Nevertheless, Christians aren't supposed to sin, and if I converted to Christianity, then I'd be honest enough to give up sin.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 32 by 07-07-07]

These things are beyond you because you are dead in trespasses and sins.

Classic ENCS (Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome). If you recall, the emperor was actually naked.

The concept of sin is an imaginary one created for religious purposes. That aside, if you regard any wrong doing as sin then the need to give it up is not a requirement to be a Christian. Based on my observations you don't need to give up sin to be a Christian. Those claiming to be Christians are just as sinful as the general public, regardless of their religious beliefs. They merely regard themselves as somehow holier because of their faith.

[marco]

You're out of your league because your lack of experience does not demonstrate anything except that you have no experience. These things are beyond you because you are dead in trespasses and sins. Meanwhile, you too have hijacked the discussion from its original purpose: Giving Up Sin to be a Christian

Moderator Comment


Welcome on board 07-07-07 but a word of caution: we try to be civil in our communications with other posters and we do others the courtesy of assuming they are reasonably intelligent. Insults are out, and what you've written here might usually attract a warning, but we'll take it that you are unfamiliar with the rules. May you have a pleasant stay with us,

Please review the Rules.


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[07-07-07]

There is nothing to 'give up' because each and every Christian who is true-born of God still sins.

Yes. I've noticed that Christians sin. Nevertheless, Christians aren't supposed to sin, and if I converted to Christianity, then I'd be honest enough to give up sin.

No, the children of God don't sin; they're called Saints. Sinners are the ones who sin, and sinners will wind up in hell fire.

1 John 5
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
[19] And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

[07-07-07]

Moderator Comment

Welcome on board 07-07-07 but a word of caution: we try to be civil in our communications with other posters and we do others the courtesy of assuming they are reasonably intelligent. Insults are out, and what you've written here might usually attract a warning, but we'll take it that you are unfamiliar with the rules. May you have a pleasant stay with us,

I understand about insulting someone per forum rules. I do not unnecessarily and arbitrarily insult people; however, this is what the Bible teaches: sinners are dead in trespasses and sins. How can someone who is in this state interpret and understand the things of the Christian God? Unbelievers get the luxury of attacking the Holy Bible, but we believers can't cite the Bible about their condition as reprobate sinners who speak of things that they nothing about? In order to have a fair debate about the Scriptures,we must be able to fully and freely cite what the Christian God says about these people.

[07-07-07]

correction

[Bust Nak]

No, the children of God don't sin; they're called Saints. Sinners are the ones who sin, and sinners will wind up in hell fire.

1 John 5
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
[19] And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

1 John 1
[8] If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
[10] If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

What is the point of confession if children of God don't sin?