What Would a Good Jewish Girl Do?

[RedEye]

I want to pose a hypothetical scenario. Imagine a young Jewish girl a couple of thousand years ago. She is pledged to be married but the marriage has not been consummated yet. This girl is a devout follower of Judaism like her parents and husband-to-be. She attends her local Synagogue with them and listens earnestly to the Rabbi reciting Jewish scripture and teachings. Judaism teaches that there is only one true God (Yahweh). There are no other gods or demi-gods.

The region in which she lives is occupied by the Romans and she is aware that they worship a pantheon of gods and demi-gods. (Demi-gods are produced by a male god mating with a human female or a human male mating with a female god). They even worship their emperor in Rome like a god. She has no doubt had some contact with Greeks (gentiles) in her town too and come to know that they also have a pantheon of their own gods and demi-gods. Her Rabbi warns her against such pagan beliefs and constantly stresses that all these other gods are false. There is one and only one true God and his name is Yahweh.

Then one day an apparition appears to our Jewish girl. It tells her that God wants to inseminate her so that she can give him a son. Now, what would a good Jewish girl do in these circumstances?

A. Run immediately to her parents and tell them that a pagan god wants to inseminate her before she is married. (It has to be a pagan god because Yahweh would never ask for such a thing).
B. Run to her future husband and ask for help so that she does not end up committing adultery against her will.
C. Run to her Rabbi, tell him of this blasphemous request and get advice on how to deal with this demon that approached her.
D. Acquiesce meekly despite it going against everything she has ever been taught as a devout Jew.

Which course of action makes the least sense given the cultural context?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]

I could respond according to the bible narrative, but in that account Mary was not inseminated nor was there any question of her being so. Adultery (sexual intercourse outside of marriage) was never an option in the bible narrative. Since this apoarently has nothing to do with the bible narrative, which I believe reflects the reality of the day when a single Jewish girl would have zero unchaperoned contact with any man, let alone a gentile for whom it was considered unlawful even for a male to interact, your story it seems so much unmitigated nonsense to me.

Still if this garbage story is just the fruit of your imagination and If the circumstances have nothing to do with the bible narrative, but rather the god in question is like Zeus the pedophile, I would suggest she do all of the above, . After all, if the story does not follow historical detail, known customs of the time or even logic, why should the options?


You're Welcome,


JW

[RedEye]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]
I could respond according to the bible narrative, but in that account Mary was not inseminated nor was there any question of her being inseminated. Adultery (sexual intercourse outside of marriage) was never an option in the bible narrative.

Firstly, an egg in Mary's womb was fertilized somehow. If you don't want to call it insemination then you may need to explain how male chromosomes got into that egg. For my mind, her egg was inseminated (magically or otherwise). Secondly, Mary had little idea beforehand what the messenger she talked to had in mind. Given the culture she was in she would almost certainly have thought that it involved a sexual union with a god. All she was told was "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you". That sounds like a euphemism for sex to me. It certainly would have sounded that way to a young girl's ears in those times. (Even the term "Holy Spirit" used in that way would probably have been gobbledygook to her since everyone who was a believer, including herself, already possessed the Holy Spirit).

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]
I could respond according to the bible narrative, but in that account Mary was not inseminated nor was there any question of her being inseminated. Adultery (sexual intercourse outside of marriage) was never an option in the bible narrative.

If you don't want to call it insemination then you may need to explain how male chromosomes got into that egg.

In the bible narrative by holy spirit.

In your garbage story, I have no idea. As for your interpretation of scripture, you are welcome to it, maybe there will be someone on the world wide web of the internet that is interested in "how it seems to you", one never knows.


Anyway, I answered your question (for which I cannot see a "thank you"). Was there anything else?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]

Yes, you are obviously right.
Judaists, or the young woman in your story, have no reason to believe Yahweh could or would breed with a human. Were as these foreign gods are reputed to.

What indeed would she do? Well, it is a mistake to presume that she would behave differently than a girl in the same situation would today. I think the most simple answer is that she'd believe she had a dream, no matter how vivid, and would reject it, as her future husband, parents and Rabbi would.
If one wishes to take it seriously, then Judaic beliefs do not allow for a demi-god, so we arrive at a paradox.
Then there is Nephelim. If we say the story makes sense in Judaic context, then you are correct, she must believe she has been contacted by a fallen angel, and reject the advances.
Finally, there is the option she could believe it was a Zeus or something...

But the most likely is she would believe she had been approached by a fallen angel wishing to deceive her.

As a caveat, the Talmud suggests at least one good Jewish girl had more than passing contact with Roman culture, and that Jesus was the result of that contact.

[RedEye]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]
I could respond according to the bible narrative, but in that account Mary was not inseminated nor was there any question of her being inseminated. Adultery (sexual intercourse outside of marriage) was never an option in the bible narrative.

If you don't want to call it insemination then you may need to explain how male chromosomes got into that egg.

In the bible narrative by holy spirit.

Which we can rightly call insemination by God.

In your garbage story, I have no idea.

What is garbage about my hypothetical and why do you seem to be angry?

As for your interpretation of scripture, you are welcome to it, maybe there will be someone on the world wide web of the internet that is interested in "how it seems to you", one never knows.

Anyway, I answered your question (for which I cannot see a "thank you"). Was there anything else?

Thank you. And I have countered your responses. You are welcome.

[RedEye]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]
Yes, you are obviously right.
Judaists, or the young woman in your story, have no reason to believe Yahweh could or would breed with a human. Were as these foreign gods are reputed to.

What indeed would she do? Well, it is a mistake to presume that she would behave differently than a girl in the same situation would today. I think the most simple answer is that she'd believe she had a dream, no matter how vivid, and would reject it, as her future husband, parents and Rabbi would.
If one wishes to take it seriously, then Judaic beliefs do not allow for a demi-god, so we arrive at a paradox.

I think a lot of people miss this when they read the birth narrative in the Bible. The author was writing the story from a much later Christian perspective and just totally failed to realize that a Christian girl (or Roman or Greek) might behave that way but a Jewish girl most certainly would not.

Then there is Nephelim. If we say the story makes sense in Judaic context, then you are correct, she must believe she has been contacted by a fallen angel, and reject the advances.
Finally, there is the option she could believe it was a Zeus or something...

But the most likely is she would believe she had been approached by a fallen angel wishing to deceive her.

As a caveat, the Talmud suggests at least one good Jewish girl had more than passing contact with Roman culture, and that Jesus was the result of that contact.

Good point. I am aware of that version of the story. In fact, Matthew alludes to it when he has Joseph contemplating whether to divorce Mary when he hears the news about her being pregnant.

[JehovahsWitness]

Thank you. .

You are most welcome!

Enjoy the rest of your thread.


JW

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]

Judaism teaches that there is only one true God (Yahweh). There are no other gods or demi-gods.

Don't know that they were able to push that line right then ...?

Hebrew writings only insist that Israelites/Jews adopt Yahweh as their patron deity ...

Yahweh being the pick of the bunch, of course.

Yahweh wasn't imagined in the time of the possibly fictional Abraham (there is a biblical clanger or two that needed "re-understanding") but the mythographers have written that the yet-to-be-imagined Yahweh performed a curiously similar act as with the BVM ...

Yahweh visited Sarah as he had said, and Yahweh did to Sarah as he had spoken. Genesis 21:1

Suspicious ... no ...?

And ...

The Sons of the Elohim (Sons of God) came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown Genesis 6:4

I suspect Jewish culture of the time was familiar with the breeding habits of their gods and the sons of their gods (we can't be certain how monotheistic all Jews actually were).

The BVM (if the folklore is real history) will almost certainly have belonged to the same Jewish faction as Joseph ...

The current heir-apparent to the throne of King David.

I suspect the Davids were the Sons of the Elohim ...

And the glorious Annunciation was nothing unique and fully expected.

Which - in my view - gives down to earth answers to a whole bunch of fantastical make-believe.

Mundane ... maybe.

Intellectually satisfying ... yes.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

which I believe reflects the reality of the day when a single Jewish girl would have zero unchaperoned contact with any man,

That was the social taboo of the day yes...but are you arguing that Mary literally had no unchaperoned contact with a man? Every society has its taboos, things that people just ought not to do...and yet they still are done.