Does Randomness Exist?

[997GT3]

Even random, or pseudo-random rather, numbers generated by computers are calculated by an equation. Is there a such thing as randomness?

Aren't all things connected?

Wouldn't it be possible for an event on the other side of the world some 20 years ago and everything else (how we were raised; our past; our genes; our immunities; our environment; even the little molecules invisible to the naked eye; etc.) to affect our next actions and the way we see the world?

Does God know what we're doing next by knowing all the variables to a huge equation and plugging them in? He even knows when we'll pray.

Is Free Will truly Free Will?

Free will is essential to Christianity in that we have to choose to accept Jesus Christ. Is it really "choosing"? Are some people pre-destined to accept Him on Earth and some later?

Please discuss.

[AB]

Free will is essential to Christianity in that we have to choose to accept Jesus Christ. Is it really "choosing"? Are some people pre-destined to accept Him on Earth and some later?

Please discuss.

Great question. Are we equipped to answer that question? I don't think so. All we can do is see how it plays out in life.

[997GT3]

Free will is essential to Christianity in that we have to choose to accept Jesus Christ. Is it really "choosing"? Are some people pre-destined to accept Him on Earth and some later?

Please discuss.

Great question. Are we equipped to answer that question? I don't think so. All we can do is see how it plays out in life.

So then with this in mind, what is free will? If there is no free will, what does the Bible mean when it says those who deny Christ will be condemned? Having no free will could mean that we're merely characters in a "book" with our destinies already determined. Some may argue that prayers can change people's destinies, but as I said before, God already knows when we'll pray and what we'll ask. So in this context, our prayers are already pre-determined and factored into the whole equation.

This concept seems too simple to be true in God's world because, instead of creating the Bible (which is pretty huge), He could have just written it in plain words (i.e. Live your life to its fullest for God, and these are the rules, etc., because your destiny's already pre-determined.). Please discuss its flaws and possible counter-theories. I couldn't think of any for the past 2 years.

[AB]

Free will is essential to Christianity in that we have to choose to accept Jesus Christ. Is it really "choosing"? Are some people pre-destined to accept Him on Earth and some later?

Please discuss.

Great question. Are we equipped to answer that question? I don't think so. All we can do is see how it plays out in life.

So then with this in mind, what is free will? If there is no free will, what does the Bible mean when it says those who deny Christ will be condemned? Having no free will could mean that we're merely characters in a "book" with our destinies already determined. Some may argue that prayers can change people's destinies, but as I said before, God already knows when we'll pray and what we'll ask. So in this context, our prayers are already pre-determined and factored into the whole equation. This concept seems too simple to be true in God's world because, instead of creating the Bible (which is pretty huge), He could have just written it in plain words (i.e. Live your life to its fullest for God, and these are the rules, etc.). Please discuss its flaws and possible counter-theories.

I believe the bible has no flaws. Or does it have contradiction. To this day, I have not seen claims of contradiction in the bible verified. The bible is what it is. Why get so upset about it?

Regarding God knows all and prayers are pre-determined: I love talking in terms of equation(ie. reality based model). But, God is outside of this. God operates in terms of eternity. God created the whole thing. So, why should God adjust things to our bratty, ignorant, crybaby rants? weak.

[997GT3]

Free will is essential to Christianity in that we have to choose to accept Jesus Christ. Is it really "choosing"? Are some people pre-destined to accept Him on Earth and some later?

Please discuss.

Great question. Are we equipped to answer that question? I don't think so. All we can do is see how it plays out in life.

So then with this in mind, what is free will? If there is no free will, what does the Bible mean when it says those who deny Christ will be condemned? Having no free will could mean that we're merely characters in a "book" with our destinies already determined. Some may argue that prayers can change people's destinies, but as I said before, God already knows when we'll pray and what we'll ask. So in this context, our prayers are already pre-determined and factored into the whole equation. This concept seems too simple to be true in God's world because, instead of creating the Bible (which is pretty huge), He could have just written it in plain words (i.e. Live your life to its fullest for God, and these are the rules, etc.). Please discuss its flaws and possible counter-theories.

I believe the bible has no flaws. Or does it have contradiction. To this day, I have not seen claims of contradiction in the bible verified. The bible is what it is. Why get so upset about it?

Regarding God knows all and prayers are pre-determined: I love talking in terms of equation(ie. reality based model). But, God is outside of this. God operates in terms of eternity. God created the whole thing. So, why should God adjust things to our bratty, ignorant, crybaby rants? weak.

Yes I believe the Bible has no flaws. I was speaking of the concept of equations with prayers factored in. So by answering our prayers, God still hasn't adjusted things to our "bratty, ignorant, crybaby rants." He's already "created the whole thing." I'm saying the Bible supports free will, but this concept suggests free will is something else. This concept can easily be implemented into the Bible if the term "free will" means something else in its indigenous language, Hebrew. But I doubt it is this simple, because as I said, the Bible's a big book. What does the Bible really mean by our free will?

--Edit--
It was misleading for me to say that the Bible has no flaws; it is not what I literally believe. I have corrected that statement on the next page.

[AB]

Free will is essential to Christianity in that we have to choose to accept Jesus Christ. Is it really "choosing"? Are some people pre-destined to accept Him on Earth and some later?

Please discuss.

Great question. Are we equipped to answer that question? I don't think so. All we can do is see how it plays out in life.

So then with this in mind, what is free will? If there is no free will, what does the Bible mean when it says those who deny Christ will be condemned? Having no free will could mean that we're merely characters in a "book" with our destinies already determined. Some may argue that prayers can change people's destinies, but as I said before, God already knows when we'll pray and what we'll ask. So in this context, our prayers are already pre-determined and factored into the whole equation. This concept seems too simple to be true in God's world because, instead of creating the Bible (which is pretty huge), He could have just written it in plain words (i.e. Live your life to its fullest for God, and these are the rules, etc.). Please discuss its flaws and possible counter-theories.

I believe the bible has no flaws. Or does it have contradiction. To this day, I have not seen claims of contradiction in the bible verified. The bible is what it is. Why get so upset about it?

Regarding God knows all and prayers are pre-determined: I love talking in terms of equation(ie. reality based model). But, God is outside of this. God operates in terms of eternity. God created the whole thing. So, why should God adjust things to our bratty, ignorant, crybaby rants? weak.

Yes I believe the Bible has no flaws. I was speaking of the concept of equations with prayers factored in. So by answering our prayers, God still hasn't adjusted things to our "bratty, ignorant, crybaby rants." He's already "created the whole thing." I'm saying the Bible supports free will, but this concept suggests free will is something else. This concept can easily be implemented into the Bible if the term "free will" means something else in its indigenous language, Hebrew. But I doubt it is this simple, because as I said, the Bible's a big book. What does the Bible really mean by our free will?

The Bible is a text. It's not a source.

Regarding free will, just take a look at it as it is. God gave us free will. Right there you know what it means.

[997GT3]

There still could be a deeper meaning to free will. Or it could mean free will in a different sense, possibly due to language differences between English and the original language that "free will" was translated from.

I'd like to hear responses from other members. When are most of them usually online?

[juliod]

Free will is essential to Christianity in that we have to choose to accept Jesus Christ. Is it really "choosing"? Are some people pre-destined to accept Him on Earth and some later?

This is a good question, and it is very nice to see some fresh voices on the forum.

Are we sure that "free will" is even a part of christianity? Unless I am wrong, the phrase doesn't even appear in the bible, and there is no discussion of it in the old or new testements.

The question of free will is really a product of renaissance thinking, isn't it? I doubt that the Bronze-Age ancients would have even understood the issue. It became a problem for christians when people began to wonder what the implications of christian doctrine really are.

In one way it is a problem of flattery. God has to be all-knowing. So he has to know, right now, whether I will be in heaven or hell in the future. If he has that knoweldge now, then my destiny is indeed fixed. Then nothing I can do could possible change my fate.

DanZ

[AB]

Free will is essential to Christianity in that we have to choose to accept Jesus Christ. Is it really "choosing"? Are some people pre-destined to accept Him on Earth and some later?

This is a good question, and it is very nice to see some fresh voices on the forum.

Are we sure that "free will" is even a part of christianity? Unless I am wrong, the phrase doesn't even appear in the bible, and there is no discussion of it in the old or new testements.

The question of free will is really a product of renaissance thinking, isn't it? I doubt that the Bronze-Age ancients would have even understood the issue. It became a problem for christians when people began to wonder what the implications of christian doctrine really are.

In one way it is a problem of flattery. God has to be all-knowing. So he has to know, right now, whether I will be in heaven or hell in the future. If he has that knoweldge now, then my destiny is indeed fixed. Then nothing I can do could possible change my fate.

DanZ

Problem is you define everything in terms of your understanding. Applying that understanding and reasoning to the terms of God is quite off base. Don't you realize that?

[micatala]

Welcome to the forum 997GT3.

Even random, or pseudo-random rather, numbers generated by computers are calculated by an equation. Is there a such thing as randomness?

As mathematically defined yes. Whether this is realized in our universe is a separate question, but I would think the answer is yes there as well. For example, radio-active decay is a random process. We can identify the probability that any particular atom will decay, but we can not determine when a particular atom will decay, or which one will be next.

Aren't all things connected?

Wouldn't it be possible for an event on the other side of the world some 20 years ago and everything else (how we were raised; our past; our genes; our immunities; our environment; even the little molecules invisible to the naked eye; etc.) to affect our next actions and the way we see the world?

My own opinion is essentially yes, but trying to identify how and what the particular connections are and what effects they have is probably not possible in many if not most cases. This is a pretty broad question, and one that many people might have a subjective opinion about, but one that is hard to discuss in a precise way.

Does God know what we're doing next by knowing all the variables to a huge equation and plugging them in? He even knows when we'll pray.

There are many metaphors we might use to describe the omniscience of God. In my view, they are all destined to fall short of the mark, and could easily be very far off the mark, given our fallible and finite natures. My guess is that God's thinking and the manner in which he 'knows all things' is probably very different from anything we might imagine.

Is Free Will truly Free Will?

We all are influenced by many factors. However, we still make choices, and we even choose what factors we will take into consideration when we do so. The more we are aware of the factors which influence or have influenced us, the more well-informed our choices are. Perhaps this means we have 'degrees of free will', I'm not sure.

Free will is essential to Christianity in that we have to choose to accept Jesus Christ. Is it really "choosing"? Are some people pre-destined to accept Him on Earth and some later?

I am not a theologian, but I believe the scholars would point out that foreknowledge is different than pre-destination. We have free will, even if God knows what we will choose ahead of time.


As personal background, I will note that I am a Christian, but not a Biblical inerrantist. I view the Bible as divine revelation, but also as the product of human hands, and so not without error.