Matthew tells us:
" And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.�
Billions of babies get baptized but the Voice doesn't express delight. I've checked to see if this Voice was heard by any Roman writer of the time but apparently it was a local phenomenon for Christ's pointless ceremony. Sadly nothing concrete was dropped from what is called heaven but I suppose that could have ended in tragedy, for it's one thing for a pigeon to descend on the jubilant Jesus, quite another for a ton of gold to hit him. So all we have is the testimony of unstable Matthew to let us know about this fantastic piece of history.
Can we take the tale as a symbolic tribute to Christ, rather than fact?
Does the Bible lose credibility through Matthew's indulgence in such stories?
Did God really shout to his son?
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brunumb
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Re: Did God really shout to his son?
Post #42[Replying to post 34 by 1213]
Perhaps you misunderstand atheists. If God exists I want him to speak and I want to hear him. If God genuinely wants people to believe in him then he has a very good reason to speak. Failure to do do on his part suggests that he does not really care about everyone, or that he doesn't really exist.And if there is no reason to speak, why do atheist ask why God doesn’t speak, when they don’t want to hear?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Re: Did God really shout to his son?
Post #43GOD apparently, according to the text you are basing your arguments upon, not only told us the truth but BEFORE OUR VERY EYES CREATED THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE and we, you and me, all sang HIS praises and knew the truth about HIS divinity and power: Rom1:20 but rejected the truth we knew because we loved sin more, Rom 1:18+...brunumb wrote: If God exists I want him to speak and I want to hear him. If God genuinely wants people to believe in him then he has a very good reason to speak.
If that is not enough to get some to worship HIM, then there is nothing that will satisfy them...
It is not that HE hides, it is that even when we see definitive proof, we still reject HIM because of the addictive power of evil.
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Tcg
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Re: Did God really shout to his son?
Post #44The problem with your response is that brunumb speaks in the present tense. He desires to hear God now, presently. You are referring to some imagined event that supposedly happened in the long distant past.Charles wrote:GOD apparently, according to the text you are basing your arguments upon, not only told us the truth but BEFORE OUR VERY EYES CREATED THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE and we, you and me, all sang HIS praises and knew the truth about HIS divinity and power: Rom1:20 but rejected the truth we knew because we loved sin more, Rom 1:18+...brunumb wrote: If God exists I want him to speak and I want to hear him. If God genuinely wants people to believe in him then he has a very good reason to speak.
If that is not enough to get some to worship HIM, then there is nothing that will satisfy them...
It is not that HE hides, it is that even when we see definitive proof, we still reject HIM because of the addictive power of evil.
I do agree that the explanation is probably not that he hides. If God did all those wonderous things in the past, there'd be no need for his terminal stage fright in the present. No, the most likely conclusion is that no such being exists. He isn't shy. He isn't mute. He is the creation of the imaginations of the many humans who have contributed to his story.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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brunumb
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Re: Did God really shout to his son?
Post #45Cute story, but I have never heard God tell me any truth, or seen him create the physical universe, or sung his praises. I do not reject truth and do not love sin. Worship is one of the most useless activities anyone can indulge in, but that aside any God who desires it doesn't deserve it. It's not the alleged addictive power of evil that causes us to reject the existence of God, it is the complete lack of any evidence that definitively points to it. Imaginative concoctions are not an adequate substitute.Charles wrote:GOD apparently, according to the text you are basing your arguments upon, not only told us the truth but BEFORE OUR VERY EYES CREATED THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE and we, you and me, all sang HIS praises and knew the truth about HIS divinity and power: Rom1:20 but rejected the truth we knew because we loved sin more, Rom 1:18+...brunumb wrote: If God exists I want him to speak and I want to hear him. If God genuinely wants people to believe in him then he has a very good reason to speak.
If that is not enough to get some to worship HIM, then there is nothing that will satisfy them...
It is not that HE hides, it is that even when we see definitive proof, we still reject HIM because of the addictive power of evil.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Re: Did God really shout to his son?
Post #46This is almost as nice as Wordsworth saying his heart leaps up when he sees a rainbow. Remember the rainbow is God's contract in the sky with human beings. At the time of Paul, the guy who met God on the Damascus road, the rainbow was Iris, a lovely goddess; and thunder was God's wrath. Heaven was above the clouds and the hillside was dew-pearled with diamond sparks that Ceres created. From primitive times people have wrongly looked around and seen signs of gods; the day being lit and the night being darkened by unseen hands. Paul has reduced their number to one, giving Yahweh more work to do, but his head is still filled with the spirit of his time.Charles wrote:
GOD apparently, according to the text you are basing your arguments upon, not only told us the truth but BEFORE OUR VERY EYES CREATED THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE and we, you and me, all sang HIS praises and knew the truth about HIS divinity and power: Rom1:20 but rejected the truth we knew because we loved sin more, Rom 1:18+...
If that is not enough to get some to worship HIM, then there is nothing that will satisfy them...
It is not that HE hides, it is that even when we see definitive proof, we still reject HIM because of the addictive power of evil.
It is sad that twenty centuries later, some need his ignorant advice. Nowadays we know the planet Mercury is not a god and we know, thanks to Einstein, not Paul, why it has a wobble in its journey round the sun. We know, too, that Phaethon did not drive the sun chariot, nor did Jupiter strike him dead. How far we have come - yet how little progress seems to have been made.
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William
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Re: Did God really shout to his son?
Post #47[Replying to post 45 by marco]
The Planet Earth ticks a lot of boxes in relation to 'what constitutes a "god"' but such tiny organisms trapping individuate consciousnesses upon the surface of Her skin, find it difficult to admit, preferring the small-minded concepts which elevate their own importance - even at the cost of soiling their own nest...so unnecessarily.
Can you show us where Einstein made such claims? Perhaps it is more the case that people have taken what was revealed and interpreted it that way?It is sad that twenty centuries later, some need his ignorant advice. Nowadays we know the planet Mercury is not a god and we know, thanks to Einstein,
The Planet Earth ticks a lot of boxes in relation to 'what constitutes a "god"' but such tiny organisms trapping individuate consciousnesses upon the surface of Her skin, find it difficult to admit, preferring the small-minded concepts which elevate their own importance - even at the cost of soiling their own nest...so unnecessarily.
Re: Did God really shout to his son?
Post #48William wrote: [Replying to post 45 by marco]
Can you show us where Einstein made such claims? Perhaps it is more the case that people have taken what was revealed and interpreted it that way?It is sad that twenty centuries later, some need his ignorant advice. Nowadays we know the planet Mercury is not a god and we know, thanks to Einstein,
You've cut my sentence in half making what is said here untrue. The whole sentence is:
"Nowadays we know the planet Mercury is not a god and we know, thanks to Einstein, not Paul, why it has a wobble in its journey round the sun."
The explanation of Mercury's eccentric orbit was a verification of Einstein's work.
Einstein explained exactly what had previously been a mystery.
No doubt that somewhere in your euphuistic expression there is truth. Einstein is a lot easier to follow. Presumably you mean bumble bees and locusts display a certain arrogance as regards Yahweh, ignoring him and getting on with their own business.William wrote:
The Planet Earth ticks a lot of boxes in relation to 'what constitutes a "god"' but such tiny organisms trapping individuate consciousnesses upon the surface of Her skin, find it difficult to admit, preferring the small-minded concepts which elevate their own importance - even at the cost of soiling their own nest...so unnecessarily. :-
Lets go back to God bellowing from the sky.
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William
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Re: Did God really shout to his son?
Post #49[Replying to post 47 by marco]
Did the bees tell you of their arrogance toward YHWH or is that just what your interpretations of their movements inform you...
How is that any better a claim than the one made about what Einstein thought about gods?Lets go back to God bellowing from the sky.
Did the bees tell you of their arrogance toward YHWH or is that just what your interpretations of their movements inform you...
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1213
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Re: Did God really shout to his son?
Post #50Sorry, I don’t think that is true that atheists would want to hear. But, I think that doesn’t matter, because by what the Bible tells, believing is not the point, right understanding, wisdom of the just, righteousness is. It is not useful, if person believes God exists, if he is not righteous. And for to becomes righteous, Bible is enough.brunumb wrote: …
Perhaps you misunderstand atheists. If God exists I want him to speak and I want to hear him. If God genuinely wants people to believe in him then he has a very good reason to speak. Failure to do do on his part suggests that he does not really care about everyone, or that he doesn't really exist.
If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.
John 12:47-48
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
