Atheists it is your turn . . .

[achilles12604]

Ok lets say that God failed miserably. He turns to you and asks you to start over.

Using whatever power you wish to have, how would you create a world of intelligent beings so that you will have a creation which choses to love and worship you.

Here are the only rules . . .

1) You have to obey the laws of the Universe you created because as far as we humans know, these are the only laws that can co-exist. In otherwords you can not create constant contradictions in physics. Example : Gravity can not be violated unless you directly intervene. To violate given laws youu must directly and quite obviously suspend the laws at that given point in time.

2) You can not violate the free will of the creatures to fight against you if they wish. This includes not creating them because not creating someone simply because they will rebel is the ultimate violation of that persons free will. They didn't even get the chance to rebel.

3) Human nature must remain the same. In other words, we have to be of average intelligence and be able to comprehend certain things and be totally clueless about others. We can not possibly know the future, not even 1 second ahead. And human tendency to lust for power, control over our lives, and non-submission to authoritiy figures without a good reason have to remain intact.


Now, given these rules what would you do? How would you interact with your creation? How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

Points to remember -
-Humans hate being controlled.
-Human's generally are shortsighted and rarely plan for the future (this is why so many Americans have zero retirement and 24000 in debt).
-If a human see's you and your power absolutly directly (like in the OT with pillars of fire and things like this), it will cause even those who otherwise would rebel to follow you out of fear and nothing more. These individuals would never love you. The would simply fear you.

[Lotan]

How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

If I were almighty God let's hope that I would have enough emotional maturity not to require that my creations love me. Isn't God supposed to be complete within Himself? Why would He need us anyway?

[FiredUp4jesus]

How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

If I were almighty God let's hope that I would have enough emotional maturity not to require that my creations love me. Isn't God supposed to be complete within Himself? Why would He need us anyway?

Where did it say that God needed us? All I see is that He wanted a relationship, not that he needed one.

[achilles12604]

How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

If I were almighty God let's hope that I would have enough emotional maturity not to require that my creations love me. Isn't God supposed to be complete within Himself? Why would He need us anyway?

Admittedly that Christians view a point to creation. If God does exist, then there would probably be a point to creation right? If the point wasn't to have people who would love you then what? I guess if you wanted to alter this you could. Come up with your own purpose for creation if you wish.

Since Atheists say there is no point to creation and nothing we do matters in the long run, I guess as God, this would probably bug you. If not then simply admit you have no opinions to offer on this subject.

I introduced this as a method for atheists to offer their corrections of God's handywork. Continuing to deny God's existence doesn't have anypurpose on this thread because YOU are God, so think about what you would do.

So Lotan, since creation does exist, come up with your own reason for it if its purpose isn't to have a relationship with you.

[Goat]

How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

If I were almighty God let's hope that I would have enough emotional maturity not to require that my creations love me. Isn't God supposed to be complete within Himself? Why would He need us anyway?

Where did it say that God needed us? All I see is that He wanted a relationship, not that he needed one.

Then why the Christian concept of 'You will burn in hell forever' if you don't worship God through Jesus?

[Confused]

How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

If I were almighty God let's hope that I would have enough emotional maturity not to require that my creations love me. Isn't God supposed to be complete within Himself? Why would He need us anyway?

Where did it say that God needed us? All I see is that He wanted a relationship, not that he needed one.

Then why the Christian concept of 'You will burn in hell forever' if you don't worship God through Jesus?

Great question. Maybe not burning in hell forever and I don't know that god ever said he needed us to worship him. I do believe that he claimed that if we dont' recognize him, we are condemned.

[Confused]

Ok lets say that God failed miserably. He turns to you and asks you to take over.

Using whatever power you wish to have, how would you create a world of intelligent beings so that you will have a creation which choses to love and worship you.

Here are the only rules . . .

1) You have to obey the laws of the Universe you created because as far as we humans know, these are the only laws that can co-exist. In otherwords you can not create constant contradictions in physics. Example : Gravity can not be violated unless you directly intervene. To violate given laws youu must directly and quite obviously suspend the laws at that given point in time.

2) You can not violate the free will of the creatures to fight against you if they wish. This includes not creating them because not creating someone simply because they will rebel is the ultimate violation of that persons free will. They didn't even get the chance to rebel.

3) Human nature must remain the same. In other words, we have to be of average intelligence and be able to comprehend certain things and be totally clueless about others. We can not possibly know the future, not even 1 second ahead. And human tendency to lust for power, control over our lives, and non-submission to authoritiy figures without a good reason have to remain intact.


Now, given these rules what would you do? How would you interact with your creation? How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

Points to remember -
-Humans hate being controlled.
-Human's generally are shortsighted and rarely plan for the future (this is why so many Americans have zero retirement and 24000 in debt).
-If a human see's you and your power absolutly directly (like in the OT with pillars of fire and things like this), it will cause even those who otherwise would rebel to follow you out of fear and nothing more. These individuals would never love you. The would simply fear you.

This is simple. Creation of mankind should exist as it does today, but no being, divine or human, should be able to require thanks for the creation of mankind. We didn't ask to be created. If a God created us, he did so out of his own volition. That being said, man should be responsible for upholding mans laws, the same basic moral and ethical values that exist today. While the 10 commmandments are a good set of values to abide by, I don't think the way to gain support would be through the threat of eternal damnation. I also don't think you will gain support by saying the sins of the father shall be visited upon the son for however many generations to come. What my parents do shouldn't predict my future punishments. A person should be judged on their merits, just as we judge them today. Not based on recognizing a creator who created us for his own pleasure. That is self serving. A creator doesn't deserve recogniton simply for creating. He should have to earn that recognition just as man does. Christ can't count here because if christ was god born as man, he had to have been aware of his presence and therefore though he suffered though his execution, he did so willingly with 100% certainty of the results because he already knew the outcome. It is always easier to tolerate your violation when you know the outcome and know what you are tolerating it for. Such as if my child was ill, and I could suffer for her though it may lead to death, I would do it. But I do if for my child, not for mankind and I do it for human reasons, not claiming divinity. If mankind is destined to destroy itself, then so be it. A creator has no right to alter a course of something simply because he doesn't like how it is turning out. He has no right to destroy cities because they don't worship him and perform sexual immorality.

What I am trying to get across here is that should a god be a creator, he creates out of the desire to create. He doesn't inherently gain the right to a relationship simply because he created. A relationship has to be one basd on respect and it must be earned. You must be held to mans standards if you are to be respected by man. That means you are bound by mans laws. I am not totally against his influence. I think having someone with the ability to oversee things isn't such a bad thing, ie presidents, councils, etc etc. But he should be subject to scrutiny just as they are. But when I read the bible, I don't get a sense of rewards. I hear more of punishments than praise. I thnk one of the worst books is Leviticus. Overall, this creator needs to maintain his presence in the here and now. Not in theory or in spirit or in a book. He must show he is worthy of recognition, otherwise, he is just a myth.

[Confused]

How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

If I were almighty God let's hope that I would have enough emotional maturity not to require that my creations love me. Isn't God supposed to be complete within Himself? Why would He need us anyway?

Where did it say that God needed us? All I see is that He wanted a relationship, not that he needed one.

But he also says that without that relationship, we are condemned.

[Metatron]

How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

If I were almighty God let's hope that I would have enough emotional maturity not to require that my creations love me. Isn't God supposed to be complete within Himself? Why would He need us anyway?

Admittedly that Christians view a point to creation. If God does exist, then there would probably be a point to creation right? If the point wasn't to have people who would love you then what? I guess if you wanted to alter this you could. Come up with your own purpose for creation if you wish.

Since Atheists say there is no point to creation and nothing we do matters in the long run, I guess as God, this would probably bug you. If not then simply admit you have no opinions to offer on this subject.

I introduced this as a method for atheists to offer their corrections of God's handiwork. Continuing to deny God's existence doesn't have any purpose on this thread because YOU are God, so think about what you would do.

So Lotan, since creation does exist, come up with your own reason for it if its purpose isn't to have a relationship with you.

Well I have sort of a different take on this. I'm one of those type of people who hate to have someone tell them details of what will happen in books I want to read or movies I want to see. So, odd as it might sound, as God I would want limited omniscience. (I know this is an oxymoron, so let me explain.) By this I mean omniscience in terms of present and past but not future. In other words I don't want to know how the story of creation turns out until I see it in real time. I've always thought that being the Christian conception of God sounded mind numbingly dull. If one already knows everything that's going to happen down to the smallest detail for all time, it hardly seems worth creating the universe in the first place.

So my idea of being God would be to set the universe in motion with a general plan and largely observe what happens. I would occasionally intervene to put things on to paths I'm interested in (like insuring there's a human race) and would setup other worlds in other solar systems. Some of these would also feature humans to see how things work under different models and some would involve different types of races to test different ideas. On the human worlds I would experiment with different levels of divine intervention ranging from deist clockwork universe non-intervention all the way to ever-present, approachable God to see which works best.

Since I'm not into the fire and brimstone thing, I would probably use either reincarnation or some sort of proving ground "hell" to let miscreants clean up there act, but there would be no eternal damnation. You might end up reincarnating a zillion times or spending beaucoup time in my "hell" but the option of redemption would always be there. Also my idea of salvation would be based on them meeting an acceptable level of morality based on a code I would give them. Basically, if your a good person in my estimation (it is, after all , my choice) your in. I'm not too hung up having people adore me so that is not a condition for salvation though if you go out of your way to piss me off you may spend extra time in the penalty box so to speak.

[Wyvern]

Using whatever power you wish to have, how would you create a world of intelligent beings so that you will have a creation which choses to love and worship you.

Now, given these rules what would you do? How would you interact with your creation? How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

Firstly I see if there is a god that it should act more like an unseen parental figure trusting in its creations to tend more towards the good than the bad. Just as with parents, gods job is to provide for a decent place for the children to grow up and Earth fits the bill nicely. To continue the parental analogy, as god I would take pleasure in the maturation of humanity and have neither a need nor a desire to have my creations love and definately not worship me, in fact I would be very disappointed if they would start to worship a god except in their early developement period when they don't know any better. The whole purpose is not for the creation to worship god and make it feel good, considering how I am god I don't think I need my ego to be stroked. In fact as god I would merely observe with the only intervention that would happen on my part would be to shield the solar system from the occassional star going nova and I would also deflect any large asteroid or comet that would impact on Earth. If my initial creation was good then humanity should tend towards good, if they don't that means something went horribly wrong and it may mean the entire experiment might need to be scrapped and started over again.