Christians: What passage/s convince you that Jesus is the messiah?

[Avoice]

To Christians:
What passage or passages convince you that Jesus is the Messiah?
And are the passages upheld by the Hebrew scriptures?

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to Avoice in post #1]
Shouldnt we first decide from which of many bibles we would take the verses ?

KJV 1607 Original anyone ?
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Psalms-137-9/

[TRANSPONDER]

I'd say that is a pointless question.Indoctrinated Dogma convinced them Jesus was the messiah; what they were told. Maybe they found something to back that up in the Bible,maybe not, but I would guess that mostly the conviction came before thet y even opened the Bible. And even not the expected Flood of convincing Bible -passages seems a bit sparse...

[MilesJBennell]

What passage or passages convince you that Jesus is the Messiah?

At the risk of a use mention error I give you these verses.

Matthew 16:15-17

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

2 Timothy 1:9 KJV

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

John 6:65 KJV

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Romans 8:30 KJV

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[JacksonDeville]

Jesus as man with eyes of fire because I saw man with eyes of fire on a cross during overcoming/victory experience while having morning star (rev 2:28; numbers 24:17, Isaiah 14:12) and I was made to fall face down and heard a voice like Ezekiel did when he saw man with eyes of fire.

In Judaism, the man with eyes of fire is considered to be "Lesser Yahweh" another way of saying the son of God but there are other men that became this like Enoch. "Our God is a consuming fire" comes from the morning star (like sacred heart images show) and the man with eyes of fire.

The sign of Jonah is an allegory for the 3 day overcoming experience when you have the morning star.

[TRANSPONDER]

What passage or passages convince you that Jesus is the Messiah?

At the risk of a use mention error I give you these verses.

Matthew 16:15-17

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

2 Timothy 1:9 KJV

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

John 6:65 KJV

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Romans 8:30 KJV

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

There's your problem, right there. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father

This is nothing to do with Messiahship, in the sense that any Jew of Jesus' time would understand it. A Messiah was someone appointed (with God's approval or directly) as a king or priest or both. It was nothing to do with granting wishes or saving souls. That is a Christian idea and debunks the q whole gospel, which is shot through with the Christian idea of what a messiah is. Herod, hearing about a pretender messiah (king of the Jews) calls in the Sanhedrin to find a Bible prophecy. This is Matthew back engineering the realisation that Jesus ought to have ben born in Bethlehem, but wasn't.

We see the Sanhedrin trial (which John doesn't have) that forces on Jesus a blasphemy charge based on a Christian idea of messiahship and what 'Son of God' meant to a Christian, not to a Jewish priest. The gospels had to have been written by Christians as they make no sense from the Jewish view.

We even get the problem at the crucifixion with a Roman soldier seeing how Jesus died (and presumably the accompanying miracles) declared him son of God, which could make sense in a Roman way (in fact that is the Christian idea anyway as it was not Paul's ) but Luke sees too far in seeing that a Roman Soldier is hardly going to become a believer in a religious 'messiahship = Gott mitt uns' and alters it (as he does so much ) so the soldier sees that Jesus was innocent. Which is a feeble amendment, but Luke at least saw this problem of Christian ideas being imposed on Jews and Romans who had never heard of them.

This is the problem we get with the healing at a distance. In Matthew and Luke we get a Roman centurion (1) asking Jesus to heal one of his household and Jesus does so because of their Faith. And moreover a Better Faith than the Jews (which is the message of the Gospels all through). Now, this Centurion might well have heard of Jesus as a Jewish healer with remarkable powers, but he is hardly a Believer in Jesus as messiah never mind Sonof God. The message is anachronistic with Gentiles of Jesus' time being credited with a Christian faith that nobody even knew about at the time. And friends, you may take that one to the bank. And ask the teller why nobody else seems to have been investing in that before me.

(1) which raises questions that nobody ever seems to raise, as to why it is in John - it a different form and location - but not in mark. I propose a Floating story' which is picked up and elaborated by John and which, therefore, contradicts the version in Matthew and Luke. But that's a different debate.

[Yozavan]

To Christians:
What passage or passages convince you that Jesus is the Messiah?
And are the passages upheld by the Hebrew scriptures?

The Jews killed our Lord Jesus and all their prophets, and oppose us. They offend God and are against humanity! 1 Thessalonians 2:14, 15. Well this convinces me that Jesus is not the Messiah. I imagine the Messiah will inspire better sentiments than that!


I imagine Christians will point to Isaiah 53 as a convincing passage. I imagine they don't know who Cyrus is and what the edict of Cyrus was. I imagine they don't know Israel is called God's servant numerous times before Chapter 53. I imagine they don't understand how the misery of decades of captivity, might seem as punishment in full, to the beneficiaries of Cyrus's edict, who sought to start over.

I imagine Christians don't understand how they'd still be worshiping the sons of Greco-Roman gods, had not the New Testament given them a different son to worship

[TRANSPONDER]

To Christians:
What passage or passages convince you that Jesus is the Messiah?
And are the passages upheld by the Hebrew scriptures?

The Jews killed our Lord Jesus and all their prophets, and oppose us. They offend God and are against humanity! 1 Thessalonians 2:14, 15. Well this convinces me that Jesus is not the Messiah. I imagine the Messiah will inspire better sentiments than that!


I imagine Christians will point to Isaiah 53 as a convincing passage. I imagine they don't know who Cyrus is and what the edict of Cyrus was. I imagine they don't know Israel is called God's servant numerous times before Chapter 53. I imagine they don't understand how the misery of decades of captivity, might seem as punishment in full, to the beneficiaries of Cyrus's edict, who sought to start over.

I imagine Christians don't understand how they'd still be worshiping the sons of Greco-Roman gods, had not the New Testament given them a different son to worship

I've been toying with this point for a while. Your point: "The Jews killed our Lord Jesus and all their prophets," is contested. Luke has Jesus say that the Jews killed the prophets, but I saw that queried. Which prophets did the Jews kill? And I query that they killed Jesus. The Romans did that that. It does no good to say that the Sanhedrin pushed him into it, because they were effectively part of the Roman administration and the Jews as such are not to blame, even if Caiaphas had assembled a crowd of shills to shout for Jesus' death.

But my belief that the whole story is a Christian lie to blame the Jews for what the Romans did aside, did Luke lie about the Jews killing the prophets? Which prophets did the Jews kill? I'll have a quick look, but the ball is in your court to shift the burden of perpetuating a gospel lie, and a very malicious one, as well.

Well, there are two OT prophets (Zechariah and Uriah) killed by orders of the King, and the Baptist killed by Antipas, as confirmed by Josephus. But that is hardly cause to slander all Jewry for 'killing the prophets' whom they honoured with their 'whited sepulchres'. Luke is slandering the Jews and from a familiar and constant Gentile Christian viewpoint, just as they try to shift the blame for the killing of Jesus from Rome to the Jews.

I think it's a disgrace, what do you think?

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to Avoice in post #1]

There is no passage of Scripture which convinces me that Jesus was the Messiah. Rather, I have been convinced by the facts and evidence we have that Jesus was raised from the dead. I want to stress that I have no problem with those who come to different conclusions based upon the facts and evidence we have. However, the question of the OP was "What passage or passage convince you that Jesus is the Messiah"? I am simply saying that my conviction has nothing whatsoever to do with a passage of scripture. Rather, my conviction has to do with sitting down in order to determine what all would have to be involved in order for the claims of the resurrection to be true, as opposed to what all would have to be involved in order for the claims to be false.

What I can tell you is, there are facts and evidence surrounding the claims of the resurrection. Different folks come to different conclusions based upon the facts and evidence we have, and again, I have no problem with those who come to a different conclusion than I have. The problem comes in when there are those who want to insist there would be no facts and evidence involved.

[1213]

To Christians:
What passage or passages convince you that Jesus is the Messiah?
And are the passages upheld by the Hebrew scriptures?

Matt. 1-28, Mark. 1-16, Luke 1-24, John 1-21. I don't think those would have happened, if Jesus is not the Messiah.

And in this case the Messiah means the person who is anointed by God and what happens in Gospels convinces me that Jesus is anointed by God.

And probably best scripture about Jesus in Hebrew scriptures is this:

Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from among you, of your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him.
Deut. 18:15 (Acts 7:37)

Jesus is like Moses, he also is a mediator between God and men and new covenant was made through him, as it was foretold.

For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the cov-enant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen,{TR reads "neighbor" instead of "fellow citizen"} Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the great-est of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Heb. 8:8-12 (Jer. 31:31-34)
Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live. Yahweh your God will put all these curses on your enemies, and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. You shall return and obey the voice of Yahweh, and do all his commandments which I command you this day. Yahweh your God will make you plenteous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your cattle, and in the fruit of your ground, for good: for Yahweh will again rejoice over you for good, as he rejoiced over your fathers;
Deut. 30:6-9
He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, "All of you drink it, for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission of sins.
Matt. 26:27-28