Can a belief in God be justified on a rational basis?

[Thought Criminal]

Many theists will tell you that their belief in God is based on faith, or on something equally nonrational or irrational, such as a special feeling they have, or their unshakable trust in their parents, or an ineffable experience.

Fine, but none of this carries any weight for me because, as a secular humanist, I have a commitment to believe only what is rationally justified, what a logical analysis of the evidence compels me to believe. It's possible that I might miss out on some truths this way, but I do avoid many, many falsehoods. Of course, I do want to believe whatever's true, so I'm always open to evidence.

Anyhow, this leads me to the obvious question: Can a belief in God be justified on a rational basis? If so, how?

TC

[LittlePig]

Anyhow, this leads me to the obvious question: Can a belief in God be justified on a rational basis? If so, how?

I know of nothing we humans experience that would rationally justify the conclusion that God/s exist.

But that does not mean humans should not hold such beliefs.

[Thought Criminal]

I know of nothing we humans experience that would rationally justify the conclusion that God/s exist.

But that does not mean humans should not hold such beliefs.

Let me see if I understand.

You say that there is, to the best of your knowledge, no rational basis for a belief in God. You also say that people ought to believe in God nonetheless, presumably on a rational basis.

If this is the case, I must ask why. Also, wouldn't your answer be the "Whatever" option, not the "No"?

TC

[LittlePig]

I know of nothing we humans experience that would rationally justify the conclusion that God/s exist.

But that does not mean humans should not hold such beliefs.

Let me see if I understand.

You say that there is, to the best of your knowledge, no rational basis for a belief in God. You also say that people ought to believe in God nontheless, presumably on a rational basis.

If this is the case, I must ask why. Also, wouldn't your answer be the "Whatever" option, not the "No"?

TC

Well, that's not what I said or meant. (see bolded text)

I think the value of believing or not believing in God/s is very debatable. Humans engage in self-deception in pretty much every area of their lives, usually out of self-interest. Fairy tales obviously are good for something. From an economics POV, consumed goods are always consumed at a price and thus possess value.

[Thought Criminal]

Well, that's not what I said or meant. (see bolded text)

That's why I asked. Wanted to be sure.

I think the value of believing or not believing in God/s is very debatable. Humans engage in self-deception in pretty much every area of their lives, usually out of self-interest. Fairy tales obviously are good for something. From an economics POV, consumed goods are always consumed at a price and thus possess value.

I have to say that the idea of believing something that's false, or without caring whether it's false, is repulsive to me. For that matter, I would be repulsed by any person who said, "I believe in God, but I really have no idea if it's true and don't care."

TC

[McCulloch]

Can a belief in God be justified on a rational basis?

To me, this question can only be answered with a "No". It is a straightforward thing to show that this view is incorrect. Simply present a rational justification for a belief in God. As long as I have been posting here, no one has done this. Again, if I am mistaken, it is a straightforward thing to show that I am mistaken. Simply post a link to a post which contains a rational justification for a belief in God.

[LittlePig]

I think the value of believing or not believing in God/s is very debatable. Humans engage in self-deception in pretty much every area of their lives, usually out of self-interest. Fairy tales obviously are good for something. From an economics POV, consumed goods are always consumed at a price and thus possess value.

I have to say that the idea of believing something that's false, or without caring whether it's false, is repulsive to me. For that matter, I would be repulsed by any person who said, "I believe in God, but I really have no idea if it's true and don't care."

TC

I also find arbitrary commitments to unconfirmable ideas to be repulsive, which probably explains why I don't hold to anything stronger than pet hypotheses when it comes to ultimate origins. I also find politics to be a mostly repulsive process, but it seems to be inextricable from human society and almost requires large amounts of deception to be efficient.

Humans also seem to need fantasy, I know I like mine, and when that inevitably gets mixed up with politics, religion seems unavoidable. Maybe we need to invent a new species (homo ubersapiens) who aren't so psychologically messy.

[Thought Criminal]

I also find arbitrary commitments to unconfirmable ideas to be repulsive, which probably explains why I don't hold to anything stronger than pet hypotheses when it comes to ultimate origins. I also find politics to be a mostly repulsive process, but it seems to be inextricable from human society and almost requires large amounts of deception to be efficient.

Humans also seem to need fantasy, I know I like mine, and when that inevitably gets mixed up with politics, religion seems unavoidable. Maybe we need to invent a new species (homo ubersapiens) who aren't so psychologically messy.

It's a truism that old religions look like fantasy, while new ones look more like science fiction (Scientology, Mormonism). While I'm fine with speculative fiction, I think it's especially important to distinguish such things from reality. I don't think we need religion, either.

TC

[Thought Criminal]

To me, this question can only be answered with a "No". It is a straightforward thing to show that this view is incorrect. Simply present a rational justification for a belief in God. As long as I have been posting here, no one has done this. Again, if I am mistaken, it is a straightforward thing to show that I am mistaken. Simply post a link to a post which contains a rational justification for a belief in God.

I think a good use of this thread is to be an open challenge. Anytime someone claims there's a rational basis for a belief in God, we can simply point here and ask them to prove it. As failed attempts accumulate over time, perhaps some people will begin to recognize that their beliefs are, at best, entirely irrational.

TC

[jgh7]

Ill give you an argument for the general idea of God as a higher power. I'm not going into any specific religion's Gods, as it becomes more of a personal inkling at that point.

Your question was, can a belief in God be justified by a rational basis. The one thing that always keeps my belief rational to me is that humans are kind of in the dark about what happened before the Big Bang. There might be two general stances one could take. You could either believe that the energy or matter of the universe simply always existed, or you could believe that a higher power aka "God" created the universe and the energy and matter that goes along with it.

I'm not an astrophysicist, but I've heard people argue that there was no "before" the Big Bang. They simply say that the Big Bang was the beginning, and that God should be out of the picture. I find there arguments to be weak because Ive yet to hear a reason from them on why the Big Bang had to be the absolute beginning, and it still leaves us asking the question "Why was there a Big Bang in the first place? What caused this universe to be filled with something rather than just being nothing?" I think that it's a complete mystery to us. And if it's a complete mystery, than I believe one is rationally justified in believing a higher power "God" started everything, just as much as one in justified in believing that this natural physical world somehow always existed on its own.

Finally, if one is rationally justified in believing in a higher power just as much as one is justifed in not believing in one, than the person who does believe is also rationally justified in trying to seek out this higher power and learn more about them. That is where specific religions come in; it is people trying to come closer to this higher power.