Pestilences in Divers Places

[SallyF]

Superstitious humans - for thousands of years past - have attributed natural disasters to numerous versions of God as punishment for their sins.

Will Christians recognise the outbreak of Coronavirus in Communist China as (another) beginning of the Apocalypse of the Jehovah/Jesus/Holy Ghost version of God …?

[Yahwehismywitness]

End of the world: Coronavirus panic and African locust plague spark Bible apocalypse fears
https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/12 ... -jesus-spt

Hubei Doctors Warn Of Even-Deadlier Coronavirus Reinfection Causing Sudden Heart Attacks
https://www.infowars.com/hubei-doctors- ... t-attacks/

It's Coming': CDC Director Warns Coronavirus To Become Widespread Throughout United States, 'Probably Beyond 2020'
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/its-co ... ted-states

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 10 by 1213]

I'm with you on that 123 but then I'm a hopeless conspiracy theorist!


That said, diseases (pestilence) was indeed one aspect of the composite sign Jesus spoke about indicating we are living in the last days.



JW


RELATED POSTS

FURTHER READING:

Are We Living in "the Last Days"?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/

1914: A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/[/quote]



JW


RELATED POSTS


GLOSSARY OF TERMS [END TIMES]

What are "the last days"? [FAQ]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 42#p898842

Are we living in the last days?
viewtopic.php?p=1008292#p1008292

How can the features Jesus spoke about constitute a sign when they are not unique to our era?
viewtopic.php?p=1000232#p1000232

What do the four horses of the apocalypse represent ?
viewtopic.php?p=1080387#p1080387

Is it possible to pinpoint the exact DATE this present system will be destroyed?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 23#p891423

Do all references to "the last days" in scripture refer to the last days of the entire world system of things?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p808997

Does every reference in the bible to "Last days" or "judgement" refer to Christ's second coming?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 20#p966420

Did Jesus say the people "standing" with him would witness his return?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 24#p836624

What is the generation Jesus said would see the end of the present system of things?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 61#p775061

What are some modern day prophecies presently being filfilled?
viewtopic.php?p=1038855#p1038855

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GENTILLE TIMES , LAST DAYS and ...THE SECOND COMING *

*The Return of Christ

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 10 by 1213]

I'm with you on that 123 but then I'm a hopeless conspiracy theorist!


That said, diseases (pestilence) was indeed one aspect of the composite sign Jesus spoke about indicating we are living in the last days.



JW


RELATED POSTS

FURTHER READING:

Are We Living in “the Last Days�?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/

1914​—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/

JW


RELATED POSTS

What are "the last days"? [FAQ]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 842#898842

Is it possible to pinpoint the exact DATE this present system will be destroyed?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 423#891423

Do all references to "the last days" in scripture refer to the last days of the entire world system of things?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 997#808997

Does every reference in the bible to "Last days" or "judgement" refer to Christ's second coming?

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 420#966420

Did Jesus say the people "standing" with him would witness his return?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 624#836624

What is the generation Jesus said would see the end of the present system of things?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 061#775061

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

MESSIANIC PROPHECY, LAST DAYS and ...THE SECOND COMING *

*The Return of Christ[/quote]


Wars ...

Famines ...

Pestliences ...

Natural disasters.

These things have been with humanity for all of the 6,000 years since the mythological Jehovah deity created the first human from mud.

It's hardly fortune-telling by Jesus' propagandists.

Dates would make it genuine.

And ...

As the Jehovah's Witnesses have discovered to their continuing embarrassment ...

It's pointless knocking on doors and handing out pamphlets, decade after decade and telling folks you've been observing the same sorts of things over and over and over ...

And THIS time Jehovah and Jesus are about to burst through the clouds with legions of exterminating angels and such.

The one thing that has bern missing sine the Jesus character floated back up to the ceiling of the biblical Dome of Heaven ...

Is a single single sign from Heaven.

It's probably best to wait for the signs from Heaven that Jesus told us about, before getting the printer to run off any more pamphlets ....

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 13 by SallyF]

HOW CAN THE FEATURES JESUS SPOKE ABOUT CONSTITUTES A SIGN WHEN THEY ARE NOT UNIQUE TO OUR ERA?

Jesus was asked by his disciples how they could identify the period reading up to his return. Jesus replied by mentioning a number of characteristics most of which mankind has always experienced including war, food sshortages, diseases and earthquakes. Evidently the point was not to look out for things that had never be seen before but that there would be something about their scale, frequency and/or impact that would be remarkable.

To illustrate: A red light is not something drivers have never seen before. But a large red light on a pole by a roadcrossing with a green and Amber light is understood to be a sign they should stop their car. Signs do not therefore have to be unique but they do have to stand out from the ordinary.

• Wars: The 20th century had the first war that was ever labelled a "World War". This along with WWII marked mankinds deadliest wars. Since then the world has been in almost constant conflict amounting to what some label the bloodiest, most destructive century in human history.
• Great Earthquakes: The Italian journal Il Piccolo, of October 8, 1978, Geo Malagoli observed: “.. during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, [in] recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. (NOTE Jesus didn't say there would be more earthquakes although some experts point out this has indeed been the case, he said GREAT earthquakes indicating a dramatic increase in their impact)
• Pestilences: The 20th century also witnesses the worst pandemics the world has ever seen. Author of "The Great Influenza" John M. Barry observes of the Spanish Influenza [It] killed more people in a year than the Black Death of the Middle Ages killed in a century; it killed more people in twenty-four weeks than AIDS has killed in twenty-four years. Since then diseases such as heart disease, cancer, hookworm disease, African sleeping sickness and malaria continue to bring premature death to millions. (As well as other notable pandemics such as HIV/AID, Flu Pandemic (1968) , Asian Flu (1956-1958) , Sixth Cholera Pandemic (1910-1911) ...)
• Food shortages: In a world where some enjoy staggering wealth this feature seems to some one of the most surprising. Time magazine said: The hunger problem today is vastly different from that of the past, when recurrent famines killed millions. Now there is so little food in so many parts of the world, year after year, that fully 25% of the globe population is hungry or undernourished, and one person in eight suffers from debilitating malnutrition. . . . "

AN UNMISTAKABLE AND UNIQUE "FINGERPRINT"

• These are just four of the many features Jesus mentioned*. Like the individual lines in a person's finger print they all combine (run concurrently "in one place after another" as Jesus put it) increasing in severity to provide a composite sign that undeniably identifies a specific period. The Awake magazine November 22 1997 observes : "Jesus foretold many other things * that were to occur. All of them would have to occur together before God would take action to bring an end to wickedness on earth". https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101997843
  
  * To read about other features of this composite sign see LINK
  https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... hecy-sign/

BUT THESE THING ARE THE PREDICTABLE RESULT OF MAN'S INCREASED TECHNOLOGICAL KNOW-HOW?

• Jesus didn't give the sign to convince people of his powers to foretell the future, nor is it relevant why and how the features have such a dramatic impact on mankind. An electric traffic light doesn't stop being a sign because in previous centuries such a light would not have been possible. Nor should one run a red light because Notradamus also could have predicted its existence in the 15th century. The sign is there and can be seen and that is all that is relevant. In short, the point was to identify a period in world history which could demonstratively be seen to witnesses a marked increase and/or a quantifiably more severe effect of these features; making that period unique in history

JW





RELATED POSTS

How can the features Jesus spoke about constitute a sign when they are not unique to our era?
viewtopic.php?p=1000232#p1000232

Are the four horseman of the Apocalypse already here?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 51#p862151

What are "the last days"? [FAQ]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 42#p898842

What are the characteristic many will display during the last days ?[2 Tim 3:1-5]
viewtopic.php?p=1095886#p1095886

Will the "parousia" occurr in our days?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 82#p864782

Is it possible to pinpoint the exact DATE this present system will be destroyed?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 23#p891423

FURTHER READING Are We Living in the Last Days?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/

[Zzyzx]

.

I'm with you on that 123 but then I'm a hopeless conspiracy theorist!

Confession appreciated and taken into consideration.

That said, diseases (pestilence) was indeed one aspect of the composite sign Jesus spoke about indicating we are living in the last days.

Evidently the 'last days' have been occurring for a LONG time. Here are a few of the deadliest disease pandemics:

HIV/AIDS Pandemic (at its peak, 2005-2012) Death Toll: 36 million

Flu Pandemic (1968) Death Toll: 1 million

Asian Flu (1956-1958) Death Toll: 2 million

Flu Pandemic (1918) Death Toll: 20 -50 million

Sixth Cholera Pandemic (1910-1911) Death Toll: 800,000+

Flu Pandemic (1889-1890) Death Toll: 1 million

Third Cholera Pandemic (1852–1860) Death Toll: 1 million

The Black Death (1346-1353) Death Toll: 75 – 200 million

Plague of Justinian (541-542) Death Toll: 25 million

Antonine Plague (165 AD) Death Toll: 5 million


Perhaps we should now expect the end of the world based on the coronavirus

[Mithrae]

Maybe a little more sympathy for our enthusiastic Christian friends is in order?

If someone had said in the 17th or 18th or 19th centuries that Jesus was coming back soon (as of course many did) as far as I can tell they would have had literally no basis for doing so besides their own delusional hopes. But I don't think there's any reasonable way to deny that 20th and 21st century developments like
- the establishment of the state of Israel,
- the gospel truly being "preached to all nations" on earth and
- something eerily like the 'mark of the beast' fast becoming a seeming inevitability in the form of microchip implants
all seem to dovetail in with plausible and fairly obvious interpretations of biblical prophecy in a manner which has not been the case at any time since the first century after Jesus' death (notably, the first Jewish revolt and temple's destruction). More obscurely, if memory serves even Isaac Newton wrote something to the effect that Jesus would return 49+7 years after the Jews' return to Jerusalem, which could imply a date around 2024. But for Christians, the downside to these observations is that if Jesus still hasn't returned in the next couple of decades (in some manner more meaningful than the imaginative 'undetectably ruling earth from his invisible throne in outer space' sense) we'll be back in the situation where such expectations are again, and even moreso, a matter of fringe lunacy.

So it's really quite understandable that there's a certain amount of desperation among prophetic literalists to see any kind of hint that those general expectations are actually coming to fruition, however dubious their grasping at particular 'signs' in current headlines may be.

As a bit of a hobby it's kind of fun to estimate how well historical events might have lined up against biblical prophecy as 'signs of the times' for the end: The bar Kokhba revolt c. 135CE; Diocletian persecution leading into Constantine's conversion, Christianity as the state religion, the sack of Rome; the rise of Islam; the millennium since Christ followed by the East-West Schism then the first Crusade; the 1500 year mark and Protestant Reformation... I suppose all of those things could have been understandably interpreted as having considerable prophetic significance. I'm hardly an expert on the subject, but I have glanced over some of the prominent date-setters in history - St. Hippolytus, Pope Sylvester II, Joachim of Fiore, Zimmerman, Mason, Wesley etc.

But I think that by any objective measure, the last seventy years since the formation of the state of Israel and fifty years since its capture of Jerusalem in the Six Day War have definitely been the most interesting period since the first century. At this point it even seems increasingly inevitable that microchip implants will eventually replace cash and credit cards - a striking similarity to the biblical 'mark of the Beast,' for those inclined to see such things. Even in purely secular terms, the 21st century is in many ways likely to be radically different from all those before it with the advent of commercial space travel, intelligent AI (itself an interesting resemblance to Rev. 13:15) and so on. As a vague graphic presentation, I'd evaluate it something like this (though, not indicated below, there was actually quite a flourishing of expectation in the 19th century for some reason that still eludes me - eg. Wesley, the Millerites, Charles Taze Russell - perhaps some assumption that the spread of African colonialism/evangelism in that period represented the 'gospel preached to all nations'??):


The downside to this observation, for Christians, is that if Jesus doesn't come back in the next decade or two it again becomes increasingly improbable that he will ever be back. Not as though that's likely to make any difference - I imagine there'll be Christians cruising through space on the Enterprise trying to persuade Spock that it really is going to happen soon!

[SallyF]

That's what's missing.

The Christian-Jewish propaganda tries to tell us there will be signs FROM Heaven




But there's NOTHING.

The first Creation Myth tells us the Elohim put stars on the ceiling of the Dome of Heaven for SIGNS.


The Jesus propaganda tells us a STAR scurried all around the Middle East to let magicians and shepherds and such know that the Holy Ghost's assignation with the Blessed Virgin Mary had been successful …!!!

But ever since the publication of the Christian-Jewish fantasy fiction …

We've not had so much as a semaphore signal from the ceiling of the Dome of Heaven to let us know that Jesus has the legions of genocidal angels fully armed and trained, and the fire and hail have been mixed with the blood and we're ready to exterminate all those Buddhist kiddies and smartass Atheists and such.

And just to warm things up a bit …

We'll have some random folks …

Who may or may not be Christians ..

Squirm to death with Coronavirus …

Or something else ….

That's what loving gods DO.

[Tcg]

In this case it seems it is more probable that the disease is man-made and intentionally some want to cause death.

It could only be determined to be more probable if there were verifiable evidence that the virus was in fact man-made. Absent that, this would have to be considered unsupported speculation.

Can you present verifiable evidence that humans intentionally created this virus?


Tcg

[Mithrae]

But there's NOTHING.

The first Creation Myth tells us the Elohim put stars on the ceiling of the Dome of Heaven for SIGNS.

Nothing obvious, for sure. But one of the most-cited biblical 'signs' of the end is that "the sun will turn dark and the moon to blood," which could imply supernatural portents or just some particularly significant solar and lunar eclipses: And interestingly, of the rarest kind of solar eclipse (H3 hybrid) since the time of Jesus the 8th occurred quite recently, in 2013, and of total lunar eclipse tetrads which all coincide with Jewish feast days ('feast tetrads') the 8th since Jesus occurred immediately afterwards, in 2014-15.

Quite strangely, using the 360 day lunisolar year hinted at in Genesis and Revelation (and discussed by Isaac Newton long before any modern events), counting forward 7 'sevens'/'weeks' or from the day on which Israel's control of Jerusalem was somewhat formalized with the end of the Six Day War, we would arrive at the very day of the final eclipse in the 2014-15 tetrad.

A lot of Christian sources hype that up far beyond all reason (eg. ignoring the fact that the Jewish feasts are based on a lunar calendar so lunar eclipses falling on feast days is not really unusual, or ignoring the arbitrary elements in their interpretation rather than first establishing a goalpost or 'prediction' and calculating the odds of any kind of 'fulfilment'), but by the most sceptical estimates I can bring myself to endorse I would say that such a 'sign' has at least a 1 in 300 chance of merely being coincidence. Which is still pretty intriguing, to my mind.

[SallyF]

But there's NOTHING.

The first Creation Myth tells us the Elohim put stars on the ceiling of the Dome of Heaven for SIGNS.

Nothing obvious, for sure. But one of the most-cited biblical 'signs' of the end is that "the sun will turn dark and the moon to blood," which could imply supernatural portents or just some particularly significant solar and lunar eclipses: And interestingly, of the rarest kind of solar eclipse (H3 hybrid) since the time of Jesus the 8th occurred quite recently, in 2013, and of total lunar eclipse tetrads which all coincide with Jewish feast days ('feast tetrads') the 8th since Jesus occurred immediately afterwards, in 2014-15.

Quite strangely, using the 360 day lunisolar year hinted at in Genesis and Revelation (and discussed by Isaac Newton long before any modern events), counting forward 7 'sevens'/'weeks' or from the day on which Israel's control of Jerusalem was somewhat formalized with the end of the Six Day War, we would arrive at the very day of the final eclipse in the 2014-15 tetrad.

A lot of Christian sources hype that up far beyond all reason (eg. ignoring the fact that the Jewish feasts are based on a lunar calendar so lunar eclipses falling on feast days is not really unusual, or ignoring the arbitrary elements in their interpretation rather than first establishing a goalpost or 'prediction' and calculating the odds of any kind of 'fulfilment'), but by the most sceptical estimates I can bring myself to endorse I would say that such a 'sign' has at least a 1 in 300 chance of merely being coincidence. Which is still pretty intriguing, to my mind.

THIS is what we need ...!!!

It would be REALLY convincing.

Then folks like me would be obliged to shut up about Christians playing the Great Game of Pretend.

Such a thing happened when Jesus broke the waters of his virgin human mother.

It's only reasonable to expect something similar to announce the beginning of the Great Second Coming Genocide.