Why does atheism have a suicide problem?

[EarthScienceguy]

Depression is a serious problem with in the greater atheist community and far too often, that depression has led to suicide. This is something many of my fellow atheists often don’t like to admit, but it is true. I know a lot of atheists, myself included, would all like to believe that atheists are happier people than religious believers and in many ways we are. But we also have to accept the reality that in some very important ways we are not.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/atheism- ... ec613b812b

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 50 by Jagella]

To clarify, you are for legalised euthanasia but against euthanasia? Along the lines of for legalised abortion but against abortion?

[otseng]

I love Monty Python. They're the masters of mocking Christianity. They can really dredge up just how stupid religion really is.

Moderator Comment

Just a comment before people start jumping on this wagon. If it's not directly related to the OP, please start another thread. Also, I would not consider mocking and saying how stupid a religion really is contributes to a civil debate.

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[PghPanther]

wrapping my head around the concept of time.....or increasing entropy as never ending or even coming to and end but residing in a zero state eternal existence just flat out creeps me out.

Whether I would be conscious or not.........or whether I would continue as a spiritual being or not.

If there is any source of insecurity for me it is in the realization of an eternal future.........but equally crazy to assume an eternal past then how did we ever get to this point?

and if time had a beginning what was before that?...........what was the cause? God?.........yeah sure so what is its cause?...........you can peel that onion layer of speculation for eternity..............ouch.......there's that word again.

Now if there is a multiverse in which there are infinite copies of our existence that we morph into another consciousness after this one without ever knowing the previous existence such as to think all this over again is actually the most comforting idea of all.

As a former born again Christian of 50 years and scientific rationalist world view for the past 15 years (figure an atheist to most people) the idea of a infinite repeating of consciousness without knowledge of the past existence is the most comforting idea but in no way makes it reality just because I happen to like it. Plenty of more work has to be done to even begin to find hard evidence that such other universes exist and have in such numbers infinite replications of the one we are in.

But suicidal?...................Never been like that, I'm in no hurry to end my conscious existence as I'll get there (at least in this life) anyway.

I do find facing reality for what it is though a gratifying experience to know rather than to believe something as a much more fulfilling way to deal with life in general and if I find no evidence of a spiritual existence either from a specific doctrine or nondescript then so be it..............no use pretending the Easter Bunny exists just to give me a reason for why there are Easter baskets in life.

[Jagella]

To clarify, you are for legalised euthanasia but against euthanasia? Along the lines of for legalised abortion but against abortion?

I'm not sure where you're getting that I favor any kind of euthanasia. I don't favor euthanasia. I favor the right to a decent life. Let dying come later because I'm not dead yet.

[Bust Nak]

I'm not sure where you're getting that I favor any kind of euthanasia.

The bit where you made the distinction between voluntary euthanasia and murder. Not murder sounded a lot like not illegal.

I don't favor euthanasia. I favor the right to a decent life. Let dying come later because I'm not dead yet.

It's clear euthanasia is not for you but it's unclear what your stance is on legalised euthanasia. Someone who is against abortion may still want it to be legal.

[Purple Knight]

In that case at least we know that the patient actually "did the deed" although that deed would obviously not be very probable without a lot of help. The doctor is obviously acting as an accomplice.

You have to presuppose it is murder to call the doctor an accomplice. You brought up the idea that it matters whose finger is on the button. I simply accepted that idea and let the patient do it, in which case the doctor is absolved. If the big picture encompassing the act matters to you more than whose finger is on the button, you probably shouldn't have brought up society being at fault in a semantic sense because their finger is on the button when the act is committed.

So you think we would go hungry without euthanasia freeing up food that is wasted on those worthless sick and disabled people. I think there are other ways to make sure there's enough food.

Yes I do. I think people are starving now. And I think it's a travesty for someone who wants to live to starve, so that resources can be forced on someone who doesn't want them. When everyone is fed by these other ways, we can talk about forcing people to live who don't want to without the valid objection of resource limitation, but as of now, one suicide is one unhappy life gone, freeing up resources for someone who will be happy not to starve to death.

I don't think sick and disabled people are worthless, however. If they find value in their lives then they are by definition not worthless.

I think people who have no reason to live and do not find value in their lives (whether healthy or sick, able or disabled) should be allowed to choose to die.

Yes, population is a problem. Did you ever think we might try contraceptives? it seems less drastic to me to prevent human lives rather than snuffing out the ones that are already here.

We as in the people overpopulating? They won't use them and that's exactly why there's a problem.

Let there be a recording of the patient asking for death.

I suppose that might help ensure that "voluntary" euthanasia is actually voluntary rather than being murder. We still face difficulties in that the patient might feel pressured to commit suicide.

We face that now, but it's under the surface.

...with hospices less crowded, there may be a better opportunity for those who want to be kept alive to receive better individual care.

Why not build larger, better equipped hospices with personnel better trained to meet the needs of the dying?

When that is done, then we can talk about forcing people to live who don't want to without the objection of it making other people healthier and happier. I don't have enough money to build a larger hospice. Do you?

Anyway, did you actually read the article you posted? It states:

...looking at the scorecard, some of the elderly and disabled are concluding they just may be better off dead. At least their despair of finding rescue from the dread conditions imposed upon them by our society causes them to think that way. Hope for some is not forthcoming.

I can vouch for this one! I have seen it and experienced it myself. If the disabled want to end their lives, it's because they are treated so badly.

Let's treat the disabled better. That way there will be much less of a drive to euthanize them.

Yes, let's. But let's not force people to live who don't want to, since it means less resources for those who want to live.

[Jagella]

I'm not sure where you're getting that I favor any kind of euthanasia.

The bit where you made the distinction between voluntary euthanasia and murder. Not murder sounded a lot like not illegal.

I also distinguish between rape and murder, but rape not being murder is not to say that I think rape is or should be not illegal.

It's clear euthanasia is not for you but it's unclear what your stance is on legalised euthanasia.

I oppose legalizing euthanasia.

By the way, several years ago I became a complete hypocrite on this issue. I came down with pneumonia, was hospitalized twice with it, and spent two months in a nursing home trying to deal not only with the pneumonia but a bad shoulder and spinal issues. I accessed a computer at the nursing home and looked up physician-assisted suicide to see if it was a viable option for me.

I didn't go through with it. I went through a lot of hell for almost two years, but I have finally recovered. Today I have regained my independence.

So the moral of the story is that suicide is often a permanent "solution" for a temporary problem. One of the many problems with euthanasia is that people can be foolish in seeking it not realizing that their situation is not hopeless.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 57 by Jagella]

Amazing story Jagella. I might be anti abortion and anti euthenasia but to be perfectly honest I've never been tested. My kid is good and my parents don't annoy me much

Insert song by Mighty Mighty Boss Tones - Never had to knock on wood

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 56 by Purple Knight]

The trouble is that the overton window changes, the slippery slope is real and we go from genuine cases of abortion or euthenasia to 56 million murders a year for abortion or depressed people making a bad choice.

I am also not unconvinced that medicine doesn't quite naturally attract psychopaths or at least make people less sympathetic to terminate life. It's the perfect cover.

When life truly was hard (ie: most of history) it appears that people wanted to live. Now at the pinnacle of luxury people don't. It seems to me a spiritual matter.

[Purple Knight]

The trouble is that the overton window changes, the slippery slope is real and we go from genuine cases of abortion or euthenasia to 56 million murders a year for abortion or depressed people making a bad choice.

Should we criminalise other instances of people making bad choices? Gambling for example.

Perhaps it's the extreme intelligence gap, but I find myself very upset when the person in front of me at the convenience store is tweaking out on $180 worth of various lottery tickets. Even in the case of the revenue benefitting the public, it's clear people are making bad choices.

I am also not unconvinced that medicine doesn't quite naturally attract psychopaths or at least make people less sympathetic to terminate life. It's the perfect cover.

I think it's mainly desensetisation.

When life truly was hard (ie: most of history) it appears that people wanted to live. Now at the pinnacle of luxury people don't. It seems to me a spiritual matter.

I don't necessarily disagree with this despite being atheist. But I think the main problem is overpopulation. People in rural areas seem happier.