Unique concepts of Christianity

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Confused
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Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #1

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I look at how Christianity has spread like wildfire since the time it became the "Official Religion" of Rome. Then I look at its scripture, its celebrations, its heritage and I have to wonder, what is so unique about it? Is there any portion of Christianity that is soley related to it alone? In other words, is there anything found within Christianity that doesn't have roots from an older religion? For example, the creation myth can also be found dating back to before the OT in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Many Christian traditions are celebrated on dates not coinciding with dates of the bible or they coincide with a previous religions/beliefs such as the birth of Christ was celebrate on Jan 6 in early Christian dates (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm) as was the Alexandria God-man Aion, the death and resurrection of Christ dates coincide also with the Mithraites Attis death and resurrection. Rituals done for Christians have a history of being done in other religions as well:
Early Christians initiated converts in March and April by baptism. Mithraism initiated their new members at this time as well.
Early Christians were naked when they were baptized. After immersion, they then put on white clothing and a crown. They carried a candle and walked in a procession to a basilica. Followers of Mithra were also baptized naked, put on white clothing and a crown, and walked in a procession to the temple. However, they carried torches.
At Pentecost, the followers of Jesus were recorded as speaking in tongues. At Trophonius and Delos, the Pagan priestesses also spoke in tongues: They appeared to speak in such a way that each person present heard her words in the observer's own language.
An inscription to Mithras reads: "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." 1 In John 6:53-54, Jesus is said to have repeated this theme: "...Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (KJV)
The Bible records that Jesus was crucified between two thieves. One went to heaven and the other to hell. In the Mithras mysteries, a common image showed Mithras flanked by two torchbearers, one on either side. One held a torch pointed upwards, the other downwards. This symbolized ascent to heaven or descent to hell.
In Attis, a bull was slaughtered while on a perforated platform. The animal's blood flowed down over an initiate who stood in a pit under the platform. The believer was then considered to have been "born again." Poor people could only afford a sheep, and so were literally washed in the blood of the lamb. This practice was interpreted symbolically by Christians.
There were many additional points of similarity between Mithraism and Christianity. 2 St. Augustine even declared that the priests of Mithraism worshiped the same God as he did: Followers of both religions celebrated a ritual meal involving bread. It was called a missa in Latin or mass in English.
Both the Catholic church and Mithraism had a total of seven sacraments.
Epiphany, JAN-6, was originally the festival in which the followers of Mithra celebrated the visit of the Magi to their newborn god-man. The Christian Church took it over in the 9th century.



This along with many other things leads me to search for anything in Christianity that may be considered unique to Christianity.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.

-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.

-Harvey Fierstein

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Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #11

Post by Confused »

Easyrider wrote:
Cogitoergosum wrote:
Easyrider wrote:
Cogitoergosum wrote:i would challenge anybody to find something in christianity that was not present earlier in an other religion
Salvation by grace, and a real (not mythical) resurrected Savior and God.
Osiris, died was resurrected and all dead egyptians would have to stand before him. They have to step on a balance if they are good the balance is tiped towards it and they are saved and live for eternity with osiris, if not their heart is eaten by a dog god and they suffer eternally.
now osiris is mythical because we now recognise it as so, in old egypt he was as real as your jesus. soon enough, jesus will be seen as mythical as osiris by future generations.
It's been 2,000 years and the resurrection of Jesus has about 1 billion converts, and is growing. That dwarfs Osiris all day long.

You might also read the following concerning pagan claims compared to Jesus:

Refuting Mithra, Osiris, etc.

http://www.geocities.com/metagetics/JCMyth_1.html
Fallacy of numbers proves nothing. The fact remains, the concept existed before Christianity. On could also argue that Judaism spoke of the Savior and though they are still awaiting His arrival, that also negates the concept of the Saviour/Messiah being unique to Christianity.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.

-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.

-Harvey Fierstein

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Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #12

Post by Goat »

Confused wrote:
Fallacy of numbers proves nothing. The fact remains, the concept existed before Christianity. On could also argue that Judaism spoke of the Savior and though they are still awaiting His arrival, that also negates the concept of the Saviour/Messiah being unique to Christianity.
It can also be pointed out that Augustus Ceasar was Savior to the world. He brought Salvation to the Romen Empire. That is the phrasology that was used by the early christians 30 years later.

Not only that, Augustus Ceasar had the title 'Son of God'. The divinity of Julius (his adopted father' was heralded by the coming of a star in the heavens.(a comet in 34 bc).

These titles and stories would be very familar to anybody who was writing in the last first eary second century. Indeed, the terminology used by the early Christians must have raised some eyebrows there.

Easyrider

Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #13

Post by Easyrider »

goat wrote:
It can also be pointed out that Augustus Ceasar was Savior to the world. He brought Salvation to the Romen Empire. That is the phrasology that was used by the early christians 30 years later.
Nuts. Salvation, Savior, etc., is an OT concept that is continued in the NT. And there was a whole lot of "world" apart from the Roman empire, so Augustus wasn't a savior of the world; nor was he divine, nor did he do miracles, nor did he resurrect from the dead bodily, etc.

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Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #14

Post by Confused »

Easyrider wrote:
goat wrote:
It can also be pointed out that Augustus Ceasar was Savior to the world. He brought Salvation to the Romen Empire. That is the phrasology that was used by the early christians 30 years later.
Nuts. Salvation, Savior, etc., is an OT concept that is continued in the NT. And there was a whole lot of "world" apart from the Roman empire, so Augustus wasn't a savior of the world; nor was he divine, nor did he do miracles, nor did he resurrect from the dead bodily, etc.
OT is based on Judaism. According to Judaism, the Messiah hasn't come yet. So a Messiah isn't a unique concept, nor is what He is to represent. The fact that Christians claim Jesus was the Messiah and fullfilled the Jewish requirements as such is also not unique as have been pointed out already. So a saviour is hardly a unique concept.
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.

-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.

-Harvey Fierstein

Easyrider

Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #15

Post by Easyrider »

Confused wrote: The fact that Christians claim Jesus was the Messiah and fullfilled the Jewish requirements as such is also not unique as have been pointed out already. So a saviour is hardly a unique concept.
You find me anybody like Jesus Christ who is God and the Jewish Messiah, and who healed the sick, raised the dead, calmed the storm, forgave sins, and arose bodily at his resurrection and then I'll buy your argument. There's no one like Christ in history.

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Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #16

Post by Confused »

What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.

-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.

-Harvey Fierstein

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Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #17

Post by Goat »

Easyrider wrote:
goat wrote:
It can also be pointed out that Augustus Ceasar was Savior to the world. He brought Salvation to the Romen Empire. That is the phrasology that was used by the early christians 30 years later.
Nuts. Salvation, Savior, etc., is an OT concept that is continued in the NT. And there was a whole lot of "world" apart from the Roman empire, so Augustus wasn't a savior of the world; nor was he divine, nor did he do miracles, nor did he resurrect from the dead bodily, etc.
The 'words' are there, but the concept is not. The translation of the Hebrew is very much influenced by the concepts that the Christians think are there, rather than the words that are actually there.

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Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #18

Post by Goat »

Easyrider wrote:
Confused wrote: The fact that Christians claim Jesus was the Messiah and fullfilled the Jewish requirements as such is also not unique as have been pointed out already. So a saviour is hardly a unique concept.
You find me anybody like Jesus Christ who is God and the Jewish Messiah, and who healed the sick, raised the dead, calmed the storm, forgave sins, and arose bodily at his resurrection and then I'll buy your argument. There's no one like Christ in history.
That is right, there IS no one like Christ in history. That is why it is a myth. The Jewish messiah isn't counted upon by the number of myths about him, but is supposed to be reconised by the actions. those actions are yet to occur.

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Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #19

Post by Confused »

goat wrote:
Easyrider wrote:
Confused wrote: The fact that Christians claim Jesus was the Messiah and fullfilled the Jewish requirements as such is also not unique as have been pointed out already. So a saviour is hardly a unique concept.
You find me anybody like Jesus Christ who is God and the Jewish Messiah, and who healed the sick, raised the dead, calmed the storm, forgave sins, and arose bodily at his resurrection and then I'll buy your argument. There's no one like Christ in history.
That is right, there IS no one like Christ in history. That is why it is a myth. The Jewish messiah isn't counted upon by the number of myths about him, but is supposed to be reconised by the actions. those actions are yet to occur.
There may not be anyone like Him, but there are myths that are. Would you not agree with this? This makes the concept of Jesus not unique to Christianity. Anything else?
What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.

-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.

-Harvey Fierstein

Easyrider

Re: Unique concepts of Christianity

Post #20

Post by Easyrider »

Easyrider wrote:You find me anybody like Jesus Christ who is God and the Jewish Messiah, and who healed the sick, raised the dead, calmed the storm, forgave sins, and arose bodily at his resurrection and then I'll buy your argument. There's no one like Christ in history.
Confused wrote: That is right, there IS no one like Christ in history. That is why it is a myth. The Jewish messiah isn't counted upon by the number of myths about him, but is supposed to be reconised by the actions. those actions are yet to occur.
SOME of his actions are yet to occur. But they're yet to occur in totality by the Jews who think he hasn't already come.
Easyrider wrote:There may not be anyone like Him, but there are myths that are. Would you not agree with this?
No, for the reasons in the following link:

http://www.geocities.com/metagetics/JCMyth_1.html
Confused wrote:
This makes the concept of Jesus not unique to Christianity. Anything else?
Read the link. Then you'll see the differences you are avoiding.

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