Power of prayer?

[Zzyzx]

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It is common for Christians to solicit or offer prayers for people who are ill. Does that indicate:

1. The supposedly All Knowing God is not aware of the situation until informed by prayers?
2. God does not help unless requested (if then)?
3. Prayers will encourage God to change his mind about what was to happen to the ill person?
4. The greater the number of people praying, the more likely that God will pay attention and do something?
5. 'Sending prayers' is a way for people to feel they have done something when all they do is mumble some words?
6. Other (what, exactly)?

People also pray for their favorite team to win a game, their army to win a battle, the stock market to rebound, the storms to spare them, their lost puppy will come home.


What, exactly, does prayer accomplish?

[JehovahsWitness]

The power of Prayer is a Christians most precious possession.

Can it help you out of a financial or health crisis?

It can do better, it can help believers keep their faith while facing crisis. This is better because it allows a person to prove their love and devotion to God, who will reward them with everlasting life in a world free from financial or health problems.

Jesus said faith can move not remove mountains!


JW


https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/faith-in-god/

[JehovahsWitness]

If prayer works, then why do you need to tell people you're praying for them?

For the same reason we tell people we love them, it gives them heart, it encourages them, it helps them see how much others care about them.

Expressing love and appreciation is never redundant, and allowing people to hear us verbalize our requests to God on their behalf has an effect few that haven't experienced it can imagine. When we tell someone we are praying for them, we are letting them know that are not alone, that we empathise and appeal to the highest authority on their behalf and this can have a strengthening effect on fellow believers.

[Jagella]

I take it, then, that God needs us to let him know that we want a relationship with him.

He doesnt need it but he expects that yes. Scripture is clear, God is looking for right hearted persons who want to know him better.

What does Jehovah get out of relationships that he doesn't already have? You seem to be describing a god who is incomplete in that he doesn't have everything that he wants.

He wil not impose a relationship on those that have no interest in knowing him.

I think he imposed himself on Paul by blinding him. At the time Paul clearly had no interest in having a relationship with the Christian version of Jehovah. Paul's conversion to Christianity was essentially forced.

He "bothers" with all humans, even the wicked, in that he gives them life and allows them to enjoy his life sustaining gifts such as air, sunshine, food ect.

Actually, many people lack air, sunshine, and food. Life can be in short supply as well as grieving mothers weep over their dying children. I see no reason to believe that any God is helping them.

If one wants more however one has to search for him.

Many people, myself included, have searched for Jehovah but never found him. Where are we going wrong?

Can it (prayer) help you out of a financial or health crisis?

It can do better, it can help believers keep their faith while facing crisis.

If prayer can help one out of a financial or health crisis, then I wonder why financial advisers and doctors don't recommend prayer.

This is better because it allows a person to prove their love and devotion to God...

So God doesn't know if his followers love him or are devoted to him. He needs proof.

...who will reward them with everlasting life in a world free from financial or health problems.

If I was God, then I would reward everybody whether they loved me or not. It seems awfully petty to refuse to do good for people if you feel slighted by them.

If prayer works, then why do you need to tell people you're praying for them?

For the same reason we tell people we love them, it gives them heart, it encourages them, it helps them see how much others care about them.

Again, if the prayer is having its intended effect, then I don't see why the people prayed for would need to be "encouraged" unless you still want them to believe prayer is doing them good when it isn't having a positive effect.

Expressing love and appreciation is never redundant, and allowing people to hear us verbalize our requests to God on their behalf has an effect few that haven't experienced it can imagine.

Why not express love and appreciation for others by actually doing something to help them? When people say they are praying for me, it seems very cheap and sends me the message that they aren't going to bother actually doing some work to help me.

When we tell someone we are praying for them, we are letting them know that are not alone, that we empathise and appeal to the highest authority on their behalf and this can have a strengthening effect on fellow believers.

Why do you need prayer to help people that way?

In summary, you seem to be describing a god who is very imperfect and impotent--a god like people would make up. Your descriptions of prayer seem to make it unnecessary at best and a waste of time at worst.

[JehovahsWitness]

Expressing love and appreciation is never redundant, and allowing people to hear us verbalize our requests to God on their behalf has an effect few that haven't experienced it can imagine.

Why not express love and appreciation for others by actually doing something to help them?

Can one not do both?



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

What does Jehovah get out of relationships that he doesn't already have?

What do any of us get out of a relationship, an opportunity to have two way communication with someone that is unique. The chance to enjoy life together, and share our journey through it with that person.

You seem to be describing a god who is incomplete in that he doesn't have everything that he wants.

Is that your definition of being complete? Having everything you want? Is that what you would teach your children that they will only be complete when they have everything they want? That sounds to me like the definition of someone very incomplete (and shallow).

I would rather describe someone complete as having everything they need. In that, the God of the bible is complete. Or maybe being complete is not wanting what you cannot legitimately have (or is that just being reassonable?) In any case being complete has nothing to do with what you posses, or what other people can or cannot give you, it's about knowing who you are, having a sense of your own value, being centered and steady because you have an inner sense of truth.

The God of the bible is a complete person in that sense.



JW

RELATED POSTS

Can an omnipotent God want anything?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 89#p848589

If Gods wants a relationship with his children, doesn that mean he is "incomplete"? [this post]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 9#p1002159

Can an omniscient God make choices?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 71#p974471

Can a omnipotent God have desires?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p840881

Can an omniscient God experience emotion ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 68#p798168

To learn more please go to other posts related to ....

OMNISCIENCE , OMNIPOTENCE and ...SELECTIVE FOREKNOWLEDGE

[Zzyzx]

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Why not express love and appreciation for others by actually doing something to help them?

Can one not do both?

Possible

However, I observe that those who talk the most do the least and those who do the most talk the least -- irrespective of theistic position.

From the business world: 'The 80 / 20 Rule' -- Eighty percent of a task is accomplished by twenty percent of the people involved (and the rest talk a good game).

In the volunteer world it seems as though the rule is 90 / 10 (or worse).

[JehovahsWitness]

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Why not express love and appreciation for others by actually doing something to help them?

Can one not do both?

Possible

Well that (doing both) is the bible way. Praying for others especially fellow belivers and following through in practical action.


JW

[Zzyzx]

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Why not express love and appreciation for others by actually doing something to help them?

Can one not do both?

Possible

Well that (doing both) is the bible way. Praying for others especially fellow belivers and following through in practical action.

Living in the infamous Bible Belt affords me the opportunity to observe that many or most Bible Thumpers are long on talk and short on good deeds -- as though donating a few dollars to their church fulfills their obligation to 'do good' (and perhaps allows them to feel 'righteous'). I have no reason to think that attitude is confined to the Bible Belt.

[JehovahsWitness]

He "bothers" with all humans, even the wicked, in that he gives them life and allows them to enjoy his life sustaining gifts such as air, sunshine, food ect.

Actually, many people lack air ...

Don't we call people that lack air "corpes" ?