The Most Evil God

[SallyF]

Is the biblical Jehovah the most EVIL god ever imagined ?

[1213]

There is a easy solution to that, keep the plague on until the slaves were released...

Maybe easy and lazy, but not good, it would have probably have caused too much damage.

It's more like I am thinking had God not harden pharaoh's heart, he would have released the slaves after plague number 6. Instead it went to ten due to God's interference in his freewill. .

Sorry, I disagree with you. There is no nothing that supports the idea that freewill was restricted or affected.

[1213]

Or do you feel that slavery and genocide are OK, when they are perpetrated against some people, but not others?

I think murder and slavery are not ok, at least not for unrighteous modern people who dont understand the rules. And murder is in no case ok, according to the Bible. Killing may have been accepted in some cases, when people are unrighteous and evil. Slavery was accepted by certain conditions, not in all cases.

[Bust Nak]

Maybe easy and lazy, but not good, it would have probably have caused too much damage.

Why? It would be less damage then the full 10 plagues, since pharaoh's heart was soften.

Sorry, I disagree with you. There is no nothing that supports the idea that freewill was restricted or affected.

Then why are you even entertaining the idea that the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh?

[Diagoras]

I think murder and slavery are not ok, at least not for unrighteous modern people who dont understand the rules. And murder is in no case ok, according to the Bible. Killing may have been accepted in some cases, when people are unrighteous and evil. Slavery was accepted by certain conditions, not in all cases.

<bolding mine>

How do you feel about murder and slavery being committed by:
1) Modern, unrighteous people who do understand the rules.
2a) Modern, righteous people who do understand the rules.
2b) Modern, righteous people who dont understand the rules.

How do you feel about killing modern, unrighteous evil people?

Is it possible to be evil without being unrighteous?

Should modern, righteous people be allowed to keep slaves, as long as they dont kill them, or do evil unto them? What conditions would be acceptable to keep modern slaves?

It would be helpful if we knew precisely where you stand on the above questions.

[Athetotheist]

There is a easy solution to that, keep the plague on until the slaves were released...

Maybe easy and lazy, but not good, it would have probably have caused too much damage.

It's more like I am thinking had God not harden pharaoh's heart, he would have released the slaves after plague number 6. Instead it went to ten due to God's interference in his freewill. .

Sorry, I disagree with you. There is no nothing that supports the idea that freewill was restricted or affected.

"For the scripture says to the pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.' Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
"You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?' But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, 'Why have you made me like this?' Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" (Romans 9:17-21)

Since the pharaoh is being compared to a lump of clay and a lump of clay has no free will, how does the pharaoh have free will?

[1213]

Then why are you even entertaining the idea that the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh?

Hardening did happen, when God ended the plagues. But, it is not same as limiting freewill.

[1213]

How do you feel about murder and slavery being committed by:
1) Modern, unrighteous people who do understand the rules.
2a) Modern, righteous people who do understand the rules.
2b) Modern, righteous people who dont understand the rules.

Murder is always wrong, and righteous dont murder, because they understand it is not right.

How do you feel about killing modern, unrighteous evil people?

In the case of war, if country defends itself from enemy, I can accept if the defenders kill the attackers. However, I think it would be better to not kill in any case.

Is it possible to be evil without being unrighteous?

I dont think so.

Should modern, righteous people be allowed to keep slaves, as long as they dont kill them, or do evil unto them? What conditions would be acceptable to keep modern slaves?

Righteous person loves others as himself. I think person who loves, doesnt keep anyone slave against that persons will. If someone wants to be a slave, then I could accept it.

Also, I think everyone who must pay taxes, or interest, is a slave and I think it is wrong.

[1213]

"For the scripture says to the pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.' Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
"You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?' But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, 'Why have you made me like this?' Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" (Romans 9:17-21)
Since the pharaoh is being compared to a lump of clay and a lump of clay has no free will, how does the pharaoh have free will?

I think he has free will. One can be directed without interfering freewill (ability to want freely what ever one wants). I believe God made it possible for pharaoh to rise, but what pharaoh choses is pharaohs freewill choice.

[Tcg]

Or do you feel that slavery and genocide are OK, when they are perpetrated against some people, but not others?

I think murder and slavery are not ok, at least not for unrighteous modern people who dont understand the rules. And murder is in no case ok, according to the Bible. Killing may have been accepted in some cases, when people are unrighteous and evil. Slavery was accepted by certain conditions, not in all cases.

The main condition being that slaves could be owned as long as they weren't Israelites:

• Leviticus 25:44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.

There is nothing righteous about this condition. It's based on prejudice against those not of the same nationality/race as the Israelites.

We also know that David got away with both adultery and murder.

In both of these examples we see that favoritism is the guiding factor, not righteousness.


Tcg

[Willum]

[Replying to post 48 by Tcg]

Thank you, Tcg.
Slight amendment noting that the Bible states 'Jews' may be kept as slaves, just not long-term.

Well, 1213, your counter-arguments have been dismissed at the divine and personal level.
We may also all recall that, according to your religion, the sins of murder, and the abhorrence of slavery and rape, are both forgivable under your system of religion.

So what reasonable, humanitarian people consider evil, your deity considers forgivable transgressions.
Isn't forgiving evil, in many and most cases, evil?

It certainly is.

Your god claims to be loving, but I think these are just lies.
These being lies make them consistent with evil behaviour, while the contrary example, makes them inconsistent with its behaviour.

Mankind deserves a better deity.