Miracles and Belief

[Purple Knight]

A Question for Christians:

If, rather than Jesus, a prophet of Satan had been the one performing miracles and healing the sick, would you be a Satanist?

If someone did this in modern day, and actually provably had magic powers, using them to convert people to Satanism, would you change your religion?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 9 by 1213]

I think God is good, because of what He has done and said, not because someone says He is good. Because God’s teaching is that we should love even our enemies, I think God is good.

How is the following order from God consistent with that teaching:
"You must completely destroy the Amalekites and everything that belongs to them. Don’t let anything live; you must kill all the men and women and all of their children and little babies. You must kill all of their cattle and sheep and all of their camels and donkeys."

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 7 by Menotu]

I have to agree with 1234 on this, like most Christians I know, I believe God to be good because through observation of his works and personal experience of his dealings with me, he has proved to be extraordinarily loving and good.


Personal opinon,


JEHOVAHS WITNESS



RELATED POSTS

How do we know God is loving?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 6#p1003616

What does the bible expression "God is love" actually mean?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p954754

What are the top 40 qualities of Jehovah's personality?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 44#p869944

Why did God create humans?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 43#p365443

What has God given us?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p954181

Is God more killer than kind?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p959154

Does God have a sense of humour?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 63#p883863

Is God perfect?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 55#p943655

[Adstar]

[Replying to post 1 by Purple Knight]

To the first question i don't know because i would have not had the knowledge i have today.. I don't know world view i would have had if i lived in the times of Jesus..

To the second question No. i would not believe because i am a Christian and i have been forewarned about this very thing happening by a prophecy in scriptures that reveal that this will happen one day..

This passage details it happening and Why God will allow it to happen..

(2 Thessalonians 2:8-12) "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, {10} And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. {11} And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: {12} That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to post 9 by 1213]

I think God is good, because of what He has done and said, not because someone says He is good. Because God’s teaching is that we should love even our enemies, I think God is good.

How is the following order from God consistent with that teaching:
"You must completely destroy the Amalekites and everything that belongs to them. Don’t let anything live; you must kill all the men and women and all of their children and little babies. You must kill all of their cattle and sheep and all of their camels and donkeys."

I don't see how it's inconsistent with God being good at all.

Anything is good when done for the right reason and God giving the directive is simply the ultimate Right Reason.

Just as there is special privilege for God, that killing people won't be wrong when done by him, I think it's also highly likely that there is special privilege for Jews in the same fashion, simply because God wants them to exist. Jews, keep existing is a directive from God. It (higher) thus gains the same special exceptions to regular human morals (lower) and if killing Amalekites will somehow help Jews exist, even just by giving them a better place to live, then they are allowed and encouraged.

[The Tanager]

Just as there is special privilege for God, that killing people won't be wrong when done by him, I think it's also highly likely that there is special privilege for Jews in the same fashion, simply because God wants them to exist. Jews, keep existing is a directive from God. It (higher) thus gains the same special exceptions to regular human morals (lower) and if killing Amalekites will somehow help Jews exist, even just by giving them a better place to live, then they are allowed and encouraged.

That's not the reason given in the Bible for the killing of the Amalekites. The Amalekites were part of the people groups in the area that practiced various atrocities and they attacked Israel at various times when they saw that Israel was vulnerable. These are the reasons given. The Bible also speaks of God using other nations to judge Israel in the same way for their atrocities.

[Purple Knight]

That's not the reason given in the Bible for the killing of the Amalekites. The Amalekites were part of the people groups in the area that practiced various atrocities and they attacked Israel at various times when they saw that Israel was vulnerable. These are the reasons given.

Then they are good reasons.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 14 by Purple Knight]

I don't see how it's inconsistent with God being good at all.
Anything is good when done for the right reason and God giving the directive is simply the ultimate Right Reason.

I despise any religion that justifies barbarism and regards any such actions sanctioned by an allegedly omnipotent deity as good. Evil perpetrated in response to evil is not justification. God has an infinite number of solutions to problems at his disposal and I hold him to a higher standard than mere human beings. To me, it is quite clear that there was no God involved in the atrocities he supposedly ordered, just human beings seeking to justify their evil actions by claiming God's approval.

[Purple Knight]

I despise any religion that justifies barbarism and regards any such actions sanctioned by an allegedly omnipotent deity as good.

So do I, but I can admit when I despise out of jealousy. I don't like that some people (such as ANTIFA) have special moral privilege and I don't like that God does. I don't, however, dispute that it is true.

(I don't happen to believe God is likely to exist, but if it did, that entity would certainly have the highest moral standing, and perhaps no act could even possibly be wrong for it; any act it would do would be automatically good.)

Evil perpetrated in response to evil is not justification.

Well, for me, absolutely not. You're absolutely right. I must turn the other cheek. If an action is wrong, it makes no difference what was done to me first, even that very act. That act remains wrong. I may not stab, even if stabbed first.

But for people of higher morals, they're permitted to do almost anything in self-defence, even preemptively, and even if the reason is micro-aggression.

I think judging God (even if it's just a fictional character) by our morals is a lot like expecting worms to have moral agency, only in reverse. Just as the worm is lower and may not be held to our standard, God is higher and may not be held to our standard.

Though understandably the people in the very middle, with enough rationality to be held to all the things, but still too morally low to be exempt from any of them, are bitter and jealous.

[1213]

[Replying to post 9 by 1213]

I think God is good, because of what He has done and said, not because someone says He is good. Because God’s teaching is that we should love even our enemies, I think God is good.

How is the following order from God consistent with that teaching:
"You must completely destroy the Amalekites and everything that belongs to them. Don’t let anything live; you must kill all the men and women and all of their children and little babies. You must kill all of their cattle and sheep and all of their camels and donkeys."

Good seems to be very subjective opinion. I think it is good, if God doesn’t allow evil to continue forever, but obviously those who like evil, don’t agree with that.

[Tcg]

I think it is good, if God doesn’t allow evil to continue forever, but obviously those who like evil, don’t agree with that.

Nothing God is reported to have done has yet resolved the issue of evil. Certainly not the mass murders he ordered the Israelites to commit. There is no sign that he won't allow evil to continue forever.

Who is included in the "those" you are accusing of liking evil?


Tcg