Are we living in the last days?

[otseng]

From speaking with my brothers and sister, far from undermining our faith and causing confusion, the impact of coronavirus only serves to strengthen our conviction we are living in the last days and our resolve to preach the good news of the kingdom before the Lord tells us the work is complete.

For debate:
Are we living in the last days?

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 41 by JehovahsWitness]

I'm going to let the events coming up be my debate argument. I have this thread bookmarked, and if this website stays here, as we pass the milestones I'll put the dates on my post for those demanding proof. People will have to know that Jehovah is the true God at some point. Not by what I say but what the Bible says. (This is sounding more like a hailstone message.) Oops!

It's been one week since this plan was revealed. No milestones or dates have been listed yet. Apparently, nothing the Bible says concerning the Last Days has happened yet.

Perhaps next week.


Tcg

[William]

[Replying to post 115 by otseng]

Yes, the rich can decrease the risk of dying from covid-19, but they are not immune from the collapse of their financial assets and devaluation of their currency. I suspect social unrest from the masses against the rich will also come soon.

William: This is being done in a number of ways.

Of the rich, those who have created bunkers in various parts of the world will be better equipped to avoid any of the violent variety of unrest...and good on them for their foresight on that, I say.

It has always been a problem of the poor to Guillotine first and not bother with the questions after.

Historically this has only served to replace the rich with newly rich poor people who immediately carry on with business as usual.

Social unrest has to therefore be redefined in order to cut out that rot or it will only be a case of rinse and repeat - something The Planet has no more time for tolerating....

And the only "evidence" they've provided is we haven't had the last days yet.

I can sorta sympathize with that point of view, but given all the evidence surrounding us around the world, their argument is not very convincing, especially given that we see events occurring that has never happened before in the history of the world (a global lockdown, synchronized falling assets, negative interest rates, negative oil prices, etc).

William: Truth. The last days is an event which has been unfolding since human beings discovered the existence of good and evil.

What is 'evil' for some is the lock-down of the systems which bore such fruit. For others, the very same is 'good'.
Remove the middle-man from his role, and we have room at the table to negotiate better terms.

Do the rich want to invest the symbolic representation of their wealth into something better and more accommodating to The Planets needs, or do they want to watch the poor suffer the consequences of the greedy rich and their inability to share that symbolic representation?

...and take their chances in The Bunkers?



"Time Will Tell" of course, but we can at least continue to try and create ripples to a better 'end of the world as we know it' game.

[William]

[Replying to post 114 by Thomas Mc Donald]

"We need to be emboldened through allegiance to nature" Second Video

There is not much between my position and this, imho

Central to the feasibility of the new paradigm project proposed in this video is the need, for this prerequisite attitude shift to occur.
The whole premise of the thing is based on this.

It is one thing to imagine a utopia and work backwards through its reverse engineering fundamentals but if this all is predicated on an initial wish then it becomes a bit of a non starter, by definition.

William: The example in the video is for the purpose of showing how 'out of the box' our thinking would be required to go ...wishful thinking is only inadequate in relation to what is being envisioned as solution in regard to know problem. If the thinking is for the impossible/unable for humans to instigate and perform, then yes - it is only 'wishful'.

Otherwise, the thinking is sound.

My position, William is...

There is an established code of Yahweh worship.
It has achieved objectives for a people through adversity.
It is deep and considerate of our created world.
It directly opposes our present absurdities.
You can start it tomorrow on a no money back trial.
Listen to the Jesus figure

William: Perhaps you can point out exactly what you think Jesus was saying which he would consider the idea the video focuses on, would go against his own vision.

As to "Yahweh-Worship", what is that, that it is different from what the results of the kind of thinking the video upholds?

After all Thomas, your list;

No property accumulations
No complex ritual
Minimal everyday needs
Protection of and reconnection to the Created World.
Community living
Recognition of external objectivity
Guidance from a central objective reference
Freedom to develop our true potentials

William: is covered in the videos...

A rather simplistic question for you ,William.

Are people more likely to believe in a planet or in a God?

William: Is that a trick question?

The idea that the Planet has many of the attributes a God is required to have Thomas, allows the ability of humankind to regard the planet in this way.

No one has to believe in this image being a photograph of said God in that - at least it does exist.



William: Images of YHWH tend to look more like this;



William: Not that I think you are encouraging we think of The LORD with such images to worship...but you are attempting to encourage some kind of worship to some kind of idea...perhaps to an attitude?

If so, who is to say that The Earth Entity does not have the same attitude as YHWH?For that matter, who is to say that The Earth Entity and YHWH are not one and the same?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 41 by JehovahsWitness]

I'm going to let the events coming up be my debate argument. I have this thread bookmarked, and if this website stays here, as we pass the milestones I'll put the dates on my post for those demanding proof. People will have to know that Jehovah is the true God at some point. Not by what I say but what the Bible says. (This is sounding more like a hailstone message.) Oops!

It's been one week since this plan was revealed. No milestones or dates have been listed yet. Apparently, nothing the Bible says concerning the Last Days has happened yet.

Perhaps next week.


Tcg

Just keep ridiculing, please. You are fulfilling a prophecy spoken almost 2000 years ago. Your ridicule builds my faith.

2 Peter 3:3-4
"First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his?�

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 41 by JehovahsWitness]

I'm going to let the events coming up be my debate argument. I have this thread bookmarked, and if this website stays here, as we pass the milestones I'll put the dates on my post for those demanding proof. People will have to know that Jehovah is the true God at some point. Not by what I say but what the Bible says. (This is sounding more like a hailstone message.) Oops!

It's been one week since this plan was revealed. No milestones or dates have been listed yet. Apparently, nothing the Bible says concerning the Last Days has happened yet.

Perhaps next week.


Tcg

Just keep ridiculing, please. You are fulfilling a prophecy spoken almost 2000 years ago. Your ridicule builds my faith.

2 Peter 3:3-4
"First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his?�

There is no ridicule involved. You promised to post dates as we pass milestones. Just as you are keeping track of this thread and your commitment, so am I. We shall see if any are ever met.

You claimed that as a result of your activity:

• People will have to know that Jehovah is the true God at some point.

Only time will tell if this prediction proves to be true. I certainly have time to devote to this project and am glad to do so.

Tcg

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 41 by JehovahsWitness]

I'm going to let the events coming up be my debate argument. I have this thread bookmarked, and if this website stays here, as we pass the milestones I'll put the dates on my post for those demanding proof. People will have to know that Jehovah is the true God at some point. Not by what I say but what the Bible says. (This is sounding more like a hailstone message.) Oops!

It's been one week since this plan was revealed. No milestones or dates have been listed yet. Apparently, nothing the Bible says concerning the Last Days has happened yet.

Perhaps next week.


Tcg

Just keep ridiculing, please. You are fulfilling a prophecy spoken almost 2000 years ago. Your ridicule builds my faith.

2 Peter 3:3-4
"First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his?�

People have been ridiculing Christianity for nearly 2,000 years.

What you have offered is hardly fortune-telling/prophecy.

If the biblical fortune-tellers had given us names and dates, we may give them credence.

But they haven't.

So I too will say: “Where is this promised presence of his?�

And continue to expect that we are dealing with god-free superstition and propaganda, until it's demonstrated otherwise.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 41 by JehovahsWitness]

I'm going to let the events coming up be my debate argument. I have this thread bookmarked, and if this website stays here, as we pass the milestones I'll put the dates on my post for those demanding proof. People will have to know that Jehovah is the true God at some point. Not by what I say but what the Bible says. (This is sounding more like a hailstone message.) Oops!

It's been one week since this plan was revealed. No milestones or dates have been listed yet. Apparently, nothing the Bible says concerning the Last Days has happened yet.

Perhaps next week.


Tcg

Just keep ridiculing, please. You are fulfilling a prophecy spoken almost 2000 years ago. Your ridicule builds my faith.

2 Peter 3:3-4
"First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his?�

Let's be honest, almost anything can build faith. God works in mysterious ways after all.

Attending church services with like minded people builds faith.
Even ridiculers builds faith.

Besides education it seems. Being educated about evolution and other faiths around the world is part of the process that started the questioning of the faith I once held. That and a reading of the book I was being raised to believe was the spoken word of a god.

[Thomas123]

[Replying to post 123 by William]

There is not much between my position and this, imho

I did not find your two pictures in any way provocative or suggestive. They illustrate the presentation issue we seem to be having very well. That is why I asked this genuine question.

Are people more likely to believe in a planet or in a God?

My answer would be that God trounces planet, every time. This situation should not necessarily occur but history and fact make it the case. The idea that planet love will grab the imagination of the primate has long disappeared in my book. This is why I personally pursue an environmental agenda through the energy that is theism.

I consider problem solving to be a real pursuit where the best strategy is the obvious choice. I am all in with the creator God Yahweh as illuminated by the Jesus figure in the Gospels.

People are not easily inspired, William.

In my local supermarket today the queue in front of me consisted of two people. A young guy , poorly looking was buying a litre of milk, a pan of white bread, 4 cans of larger, a vapour of some sort and a lotto ticket.
The second guy is nearly as tight as I am, and he proceeded to count out small coins from his pocket to buy his daily National Newspaper. These are the demographics of the human in our times and what Mark said then is equally relevant to now.

Mark 4

. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

I have long been an advocate for neighbours sharing a lawnmower ,but in today's times the simple logistics of this are elevated to being impossible. Truly, William, the Jesus figure would work alongside your proposals but Yahweh worship would be his method. The Jesus figure comes across to me as being lethargic when it comes to the pursuit of manual labour which is a common ailment in the academic, myself included. Have you ever considered him 'lazy'?

[William]

[Replying to post 128 by Thomas123]

William: So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that human beings are conditioned to appreciate a human image as 'god' than that of a planet, even that the planet itself is obviously the provider and sustainer of human life.

You didn't answer my end-question re 'worship'...

"If so, who is to say that The Earth Entity does not have the same attitude as YHWH? For that matter, who is to say that The Earth Entity and YHWH are not one and the same?"

Remember, we are not speaking of form here. We are speaking of attitude which comes through form.

[Thomas123]

[Replying to post 128 by Thomas123]

William: So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that human beings are conditioned to appreciate a human image as 'god' than that of a planet, even that the planet itself is obviously the provider and sustainer of human life.

You didn't answer my end-question re 'worship'...

"If so, who is to say that The Earth Entity does not have the same attitude as YHWH? For that matter, who is to say that The Earth Entity and YHWH are not one and the same?"

Remember, we are not speaking of form here. We are speaking of attitude which comes through form.

William: If so, who is to say that The Earth Entity does not have the same attitude as YHWH?For that matter, who is to say that The Earth Entity and YHWH are not one and the same?

................................

This is a question of subjective form as you appear to suggest.
The primate is conditioned to respond to the form of it's troop.
The external environment is one step beyond.

There are serious confinements attached to all the metaphorical representations of God in human worship. These are blunt tools for the task but they are cognitive tools, nevertheless.
Is Yahweh the Creator God of Genesis, the same as the Earth Entity?

Definitely not!

Even from the start Yahweh is more than that.

How do you metaphorically expand the Earth entity in any meaningful metaphorical way fit for general human consumption.
Your video is a fine utopian wish, imho

ps: Yahweh iconography is generally a step too far and pictures of Jesus are basically Disney. There is alot of this about, particularly in Christianity. We seem to have a reinforcement need for populist propaganda within our faiths that probably has to be accepted. I would use the earths beauty ,in photography,as an accurate representation of God's work and when combined sincerely with Scripture it would be instructive.