Clownboat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:31 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:00 am
I would agree if it weren't for the obvious insanity surrounding the GOP,
I doesn't seem that I can have a political discussion with you for the reasons I alluded to earlier.
Be well and I trust those insane GOP people wont get you in your sleep tonight.
Your position is just as much an "Us v Them".
You would need to show that you speak the truth as I understand Us vs Them to be cult thinking and strive (not always successfully) to avoid such reasoning.
For clarity, my position was (copy/paste):
"I notice that often people talk passionately about politics like some do about their preferred god concept. I assume humans use the same part of our brains for both and we should be cautious to not let our emotions control out thinking."
I avoid such reasoning because as I said, it is all to easy to label the other side as lost/corrupt/insane/immoral/incompetent/power-hungry/bigoted/hateful/misogynist/racist/irresponsible and then I don't even have to consider an opposing position if it in fact it might have some merit. The Us's get more 'us' and the Them's get more 'them' and the division only increases.
I'm not here to tell you how to politics though. You do you.
I wonder, if a person has marked you as "Them" - and they've made a point to eradicate you - is that person still an "Us" to you? Do you simply not believe there are Us's and Them's, or that you don't like the general idea. The latter is fine - I agree in principle - but in practice, there are people who are working against Us AND Them.
I have to wonder what you think the government and politics is for?
Let's take a simple example:
Climate Change:
The GOP since 1964, has had a history of being Conservative and ignoring science in favor of Conservative Ideology (which is profoundly anti-science). They sided with Philip Morris and their "science" that smoking didn't cause cancer. They didn't believe HIV caused AIDS. They didn't believe that fossil fuels were causing Climate Change.
For over 50 years they have literally slowed the progress we needed to avoid the impacts were are seeing now - and they are going to get worse. We are still creating more carbon. Increasingly more (though the rate has marginally slowed).
The GOP was instrumental in a few, very key and very specific things that has led us to this point:
1. They demonized Gore and his "An Inconvenient Truth" which has proved to be completely accurate.
2. They were able to get the judiciary involved in the election and tip it to Bush
3. They rallied their base to shut down the vote re-count early:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
4. Bush’s brother Jeb was the governor of the state and Secretary of State Katherine Harris was cochair of Bush’s Florida campaign
Had they not demonized Gore for his views, and had they not fed the American people with lies about climate change, Gore probably would have won. (The vote was decided by about 0.01%)
With that, there would have been a very different focus on climate change. It would likely have become woven into our culture - but the GOP wouldn't have it. They continue today claiming that Green = (Red) Communism. They continue to argue against the science (of almost everything). This is not a case of "discuss both sides". Like Evolution, Climate Science is settled and not up for debate. Yet, THEY would have you believe whether or not it's up for debate, it's up for debate because they feel like it.