Omnipotence and Omniscience

[JoeMama]

The allegedly all-knowing, all-powerful God has the knowledge and power to impart to all of human-kind a certain understanding and ability to achieve salvation, doesn't he?

So, why hasn't he yet done so?

[TRANSPONDER]

"There are many religions, there is only one science".

Nowadays we have also the politized science, that tells what the fascists of this world wants it to tell. It is much like religion once was, the validation for the rulers to control everyone as they wish.

It is still religion that is politicized, in Iran, Russia where the Orthodox church is run by former KGB men for the political purposes. And Religion has been politicised in the US for a time before the 2016 election.

I have no idea what your 'poliiticized science' even looks like.

We may ask about the ultimate unknowns and indeed the human problems, like evil, injustice and why films now have post - it notes instead of scripts, but science has provided the answers

It is the people who give answers. Science is only a method to study physical world, it doesn't say anything.

That's a strawman and a deliberate alteration of what i said. I didn't say it had 'said' (spoken) anything but has provided the answers, because it is a method and technique that enables people to do that. religion isn't. It is a way to delude and exploit the people as you saw it once did and still does. Science isn't.

You will do yourself no favours by altering my posts and making weird claims like that.

[Clownboat]

Fear may be the reason to imagine some gods

If that is the mechanism that created the god concepts, it is the mechanism that created the god concepts. You would need to argue for your god concept being special, but in the end it seems to just be another human explanation for things that are unknown.

If your god concept is different then other god concepts, what are we to make of much older god concepts. How did they exist before your god concept did?

But, I don't think it is reasonable to claim it would lead to situation where cowards go to hell. Why would a coward invent hell for himself?

Please show that cowards did what you claim.

For example people without much knowledge worship sticks and stones, or mother earth (=evolution). People who see a plane, may worship it:

You do my work for me. Thanks for agreeing that god concepts are invented by humans to explain unknowns.

Pacific Islander: What is that thing in the sky!
Person B: That's just a plane.
Pacific Islander: My shaman said it's a God, so I don't believe you. It's sad, because my air bending God that also created this planet you live on loves you and has a message for you.
Person B: That's just a plane though. We know how planes came about.
Pacific Islander: My plane God is the one true plane God though. My shaman also said that our plane God wants your land and women, so sorry, but we must commit genocide. Now where are your virgin girls?
Person B: Please, put your sword down, really, it's just a plane.
Pacific Islander: Die sinner!

Thanks for your thought experiment 1213. It explains much that we see in history don't you think?

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes, an aspect (which God -apologists seem unable to take on board - along with everything else) is the equal validity of other religions. They seem convinced that the only religion as an alternative to atheism in their own. They others are simply wrong and that's it. This is almost unfathomable to the rationalist as such a dismissive and closed - minded mindset.

I (and other atheist apologists) sometimes use Islam, because it is the closest to Christianity as an alternative. I won't rehearse all the self -serving and double - standard arguments I've heard as to why Christianity has to be the true religion, but it shows up the flaw in Faithbased thinking in Christian apologetics. The 'gaps for God'fail because, even if they had merit, it wouldn't tell us which god.

Bible apologists don't even stop to consider this even when I've brought it up. It is their God and stops with Jesus just as for Muslims it stops with Allah, and the Christian mind seems unable to accept what is logical because that would mean admitting Doubt, and That is the unforgivable sin.

One poster argued that the Quran was invalid because Satan had arranged for the message to be given to Muhammad in the cave (he never doubted whether the story was true, it seems) and I countered by arguing that one could say that the angel was arranged by Satan to do the annunciation. Given the circumstances (as Non stamp -collector said in his vid "What would Jesus Not do?" put it: "Tell her her consent is neither requested nor required") and I recall no response. Neither do I recall "Coo - I never thought of it like that". because I am sure he never will, nor do the others. Christianity, the Bible and Jesus is true on Faith and shove everything else.

[1213]

Fear may be the reason to imagine some gods

If that is the mechanism that created the god concepts, it is the mechanism that created the god concepts. You would need to argue for your god concept being special, but in the end it seems to just be another human explanation for things that are unknown.

Do you understand what if something seems to be something, it does not necessary mean that it is so really. I don't think humans would be able to make the Bible without God. When humans are on their own, they tend to worship sticks and stones level stuff.

If your god concept is different then other god concepts, what are we to make of much older god concepts. How did they exist before your god concept did?

Much older? I don't have any reason to believe there are older concepts.

For example people without much knowledge worship sticks and stones, or mother earth (=evolution). People who see a plane, may worship it:

You do my work for me. Thanks for agreeing that god concepts are invented by humans to explain unknowns.

What I said shows, people don't invent the things they worship, they choose them from what they have seen, like for example planes.

[1213]

I have no idea what your 'poliiticized science' even looks like.

For example that how politicians basically say electric cars must be bought because "science" says we get then better weather. Or people must buy "vaccines" from quacks and renounce their rights, because "science" says it is best to do so.

I didn't say it had 'said' (spoken) anything but has provided the answers

It is a method to get certain results. It doesn't really answer what the results means. The high priests of science tells what the results means. And often it reminds me of how ancient soothsayers read animal entrails to tell what will happen in future.

[TRANSPONDER]

I have no idea what your 'poliiticized science' even looks like.

For example that how politicians basically say electric cars must be bought because "science" says we get then better weather. Or people must buy "vaccines" from quacks and renounce their rights, because "science" says it is best to do so.

I didn't say it had 'said' (spoken) anything but has provided the answers

It is a method to get certain results. It doesn't really answer what the results means. The high priests of science tells what the results means. And often it reminds me of how ancient soothsayers read animal entrails to tell what will happen in future.

The science denial is strong in this one. The fact is that you rely on the products of science every day, and you use thir convenience and usefulness without doubt or question and then dismiss anything the current Fundamentalists say is dogma. Like it or not electric is coming and (like many things the Religious Right fought against) will be the norm.

But you deny science as you like. It will just make the browsers see your posts as less the work of reason and more the work of denial.

[TRANSPONDER]

Fear may be the reason to imagine some gods

If that is the mechanism that created the god concepts, it is the mechanism that created the god concepts. You would need to argue for your god concept being special, but in the end it seems to just be another human explanation for things that are unknown.

Do you understand what if something seems to be something, it does not necessary mean that it is so really. I don't think humans would be able to make the Bible without God. When humans are on their own, they tend to worship sticks and stones level stuff.

If your god concept is different then other god concepts, what are we to make of much older god concepts. How did they exist before your god concept did?

Much older? I don't have any reason to believe there are older concepts.

For example people without much knowledge worship sticks and stones, or mother earth (=evolution). People who see a plane, may worship it:

You do my work for me. Thanks for agreeing that god concepts are invented by humans to explain unknowns.

What I said shows, people don't invent the things they worship, they choose them from what they have seen, like for example planes.

Absurd. The evidence is that humans did make the Bible and for sure in bits and compilation and adaptations. Of course without a god. At least the Book of Mormon, the Quran and Bhaghavad Gita are all of a piece, and not the mix and match mess of the Bible.

Despite what you may believe, the Egyptians were worshipping their gods before the Israelites evolves from the Amorites. And you mistake human invention.human misinterpretation (as you said yourself) of what they have seen in terms of there severely limited understanding, causes them to Invent big invisible humans (gods) to explain what they can't explain.

And God -apologists are still trying to do the same today.

[1213]

...At least the Book of Mormon, the Quran and Bhaghavad Gita are all of a piece, and not the mix and match mess of the Bible.

To me that Bible is compiled from scriptures written by many different people, in a long time period, makes it more convincing. It is not just tied to one person at one point of time.

...causes them to Invent big invisible humans (gods) to explain what they can't explain.

Please tell, who on this planet has invent big invisible humans?

[TRANSPONDER]

...At least the Book of Mormon, the Quran and Bhaghavad Gita are all of a piece, and not the mix and match mess of the Bible.

To me that Bible is compiled from scriptures written by many different people, in a long time period, makes it more convincing. It is not just tied to one person at one point of time.

...causes them to Invent big invisible humans (gods) to explain what they can't explain.

Please tell, who on this planet has invent big invisible humans?

You can do better than this. Historical records indicate that humans have been inventing big invisible humans to explain the unexplainable since the dawn of time.We call them "Gods". remember those?

That many different people with an axe to grind contributed to the Bible anthology makes it no more 'convincing' than a dozen different writers make Startrek more convincing, even though both sets of scriptwriters bore Canon or Dogma in mind, so of course, the general mindset and message was the same. Doesn't make it true, especially when they are wrong or contradictory.

One of the best or worst episodes had Jack the ripper as a violent space alien (Rejac). But an Apologist could argue that would explain everything (even if the evidence is that Ripper had to be a locally living man known and trusted by the victims) One can always come up with an invented explanation without a scrap of evidence.

[Clownboat]

Do you understand what if something seems to be something, it does not necessary mean that it is so really.

Odds are that it is so. Exceptions to every rule of course.

I don't think humans would be able to make the Bible without God.

Then you are wrong and should amend your thinking on the matter because numerous humans partook in the creation of the Bible.

When humans are on their own, they tend to worship sticks and stones level stuff.

Careful, you make atheists out to be the logical ones. At least sticks and stones can be shown to be real. Not one single available god concept can be shown to be as real as sticks and stones.

If your god concept is different then other god concepts, what are we to make of much older god concepts. How did they exist before your god concept did?

Much older? I don't have any reason to believe there are older concepts.

There are reasons unless you stick your head in the sand.
Excluding sparse and controversial evidence in the Middle Paleolithic (300,000–50,000 years ago), religion emerged with certainty in the Upper Paleolithic around 50,000 years ago.
Also, why do you ignore the religions of South America for example?
The earliest archaeological evidence from human settlement in South America is found in Monte Verde, in Southern Chile. It possibly dates back to as early as 16,500 BCE

What I said shows, people don't invent the things they worship, they choose them from what they have seen, like for example planes.

The plane was real, the imagination that turned it into a god is the mechanism I referred to. Thanks again for providing evidence that my position is sound.

Also, you forgot to respond to this:
"Thanks for your thought experiment 1213. It explains much that we see in history don't you think?"