Why do the Gospel accounts vary so much? They seem to disagree!

[oldbadger]

The gospel accounts don't agree with each other, or so it seems to me.

For example: Why did the Gospel of Mark tell of the 'Temple clearance' happening in the last week of his mission when the Gospel of John tells us that it happened in the first weeks? ........most strange.

...............and more to come.

[oldbadger]

ABSOLUTELY NOT! THE SUPREME RULING FORCE HERE IS GOD --- deist or not! And Balaam and his donkey didn't talk about the weather, and neither did the serpent and Eve.

What.....the Abrahamic God? The God of the Israelites, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Bahá'ís? I don't think so.

I don't think that Genesis is literal, either, more a metaphorical account.

[LittleNipper]

.

I feel that you might just be kidding; however, since GOD exists and since the Bible has been inspired by GOD, and since GOD created everything --- then I see no reason under GOD's sun, why if GOD so chooses to allow an animal to communicate with a human that it cannot happen. Perhaps it was telepathic... I don't understand why people want to limit GOD's abilities. If one doesn't believe in GOD, then don't believe.

You've got that wrong......all wrong. For a start I do believe in God because I am a deist.
But I don't believe that means that my ducks and I are ever likely to talk about the weather.

However, to make light of miraculous events as silly, seems rather redundant of those who choose not to believe that the CREATOR is real. Without GOD there are no miracles, but then prove how life originated by making some biological life of your own. Until then, that's the atheist's own miraculous belief.

You keep telling me stuff that is funny.
The rulling force here and everywhere else is mother nature.
I know that you obey her EVERY command, and even today you will be commanded to stoop down and empty your bowels, just as I will. Your every moment is given by her until the day that you shall die.
Now you know that is true.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! THE SUPREME RULING FORCE HERE IS GOD --- deist or not! And Balaam and his donkey didn't talk about the weather, and neither did the serpent and Eve.

So you are talking about one -off miracles? What would the serpent and the donkey talk about when they weren't acting out OT screenplay? Why not the weather? It has to be that they didn't talk normally (just as they don't now) unless God waved a magic wand and they talked - just for that story.

But then you'd expect Eve or Balaam to express some surprise. "Hey, last time I asked, you swore blind you couldn't talk!" But it is accepted in the story without a blink.

Of course we know, don't we, that they are tall tales or parables; fairy tales, and there is no good reason to accept them (or anything else in the Bible) as valid, unless there is some good reason to. like the Caesarea inscription validated Pilate. But nothing really validated Jesus. And the Gabriel stone rather undermined the 3 day resurrection claim as well.

104 guests.That's a bit better.

I don't know what various kinds of animals communicate among themselves. In Eve's case, it's very likely everything was new to her. Yet, while Adam was still the only human, I do imagine that Adam interacted with animals and lovingly understood them. The world was still perfect and sinless. As for Balaam, an account of the event is given to reveal that GOD may willingly use one "ass" to educate another. The specifics of the event are not revealed...

That's pretty evasive. You evade tackling whether animals can or could communicate with humans or whether (as the balaam example strongly suggests) God enabled a miracle to have the event happen.

But it's like this; while you can invent anything or indeed nothing much more than 'there is probably some explanation' -type evasions, the smart money is on that it is a made -up parable, because there is no much nonsense in the Bible and not only in Genesis, it is futile to try tom excuse the more absurd ones when can bet the day and night did not exist before the sun was made, the sun can hardly stop moving (that is the earth stops rotating) without dire consequences and so on throughout the Book.

Look, I know you think that denying everything and suggesting these was some unknown explanation, but the best case is the winner, not how much denial you can muster.

I'm not being evasive in the least. The Bible clearly reveals that two animals talked understandably to those they wished to communicate with. In the case of the "serpent" and Eve, it was clearly a case of satanic possession and GOD allowed the interaction by HIS permissive will. In the case of Balaam and his donkey, it's clear that GOD's intent was to warn Balaam that he was going to get himself killed by his persistent wrong actions. In this case, it was a miraculous intervention that Balaam understood.
The only thing I will add is that anyone who has a dog or a cat or some other pet they love --- that pet owner knows when that pet wishes to be feed, is in distress, sick, excited, and or just wants some love. I had a golden retriever who literally jumped in my arms and stated licking my face all over while yelping after I had been away at school for some months. It was most obvious to me that he loved and missed me and was so very happy to see his best loved human buddy!
If there is no GOD, these events cannot have happened. How much proof do you need that miracles happed and are still a possibility today. The miracle of SALVATION is the most astounding of all the miracles. And the one who experiences this knows he is loved by GOD which is something an unredeemed person cannot fathom in the least.

[TRANSPONDER]

.

I feel that you might just be kidding; however, since GOD exists and since the Bible has been inspired by GOD, and since GOD created everything --- then I see no reason under GOD's sun, why if GOD so chooses to allow an animal to communicate with a human that it cannot happen. Perhaps it was telepathic... I don't understand why people want to limit GOD's abilities. If one doesn't believe in GOD, then don't believe.

You've got that wrong......all wrong. For a start I do believe in God because I am a deist.
But I don't believe that means that my ducks and I are ever likely to talk about the weather.

However, to make light of miraculous events as silly, seems rather redundant of those who choose not to believe that the CREATOR is real. Without GOD there are no miracles, but then prove how life originated by making some biological life of your own. Until then, that's the atheist's own miraculous belief.

You keep telling me stuff that is funny.
The rulling force here and everywhere else is mother nature.
I know that you obey her EVERY command, and even today you will be commanded to stoop down and empty your bowels, just as I will. Your every moment is given by her until the day that you shall die.
Now you know that is true.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! THE SUPREME RULING FORCE HERE IS GOD --- deist or not! And Balaam and his donkey didn't talk about the weather, and neither did the serpent and Eve.

So you are talking about one -off miracles? What would the serpent and the donkey talk about when they weren't acting out OT screenplay? Why not the weather? It has to be that they didn't talk normally (just as they don't now) unless God waved a magic wand and they talked - just for that story.

But then you'd expect Eve or Balaam to express some surprise. "Hey, last time I asked, you swore blind you couldn't talk!" But it is accepted in the story without a blink.

Of course we know, don't we, that they are tall tales or parables; fairy tales, and there is no good reason to accept them (or anything else in the Bible) as valid, unless there is some good reason to. like the Caesarea inscription validated Pilate. But nothing really validated Jesus. And the Gabriel stone rather undermined the 3 day resurrection claim as well.

104 guests.That's a bit better.

I don't know what various kinds of animals communicate among themselves. In Eve's case, it's very likely everything was new to her. Yet, while Adam was still the only human, I do imagine that Adam interacted with animals and lovingly understood them. The world was still perfect and sinless. As for Balaam, an account of the event is given to reveal that GOD may willingly use one "ass" to educate another. The specifics of the event are not revealed...

That's pretty evasive. You evade tackling whether animals can or could communicate with humans or whether (as the balaam example strongly suggests) God enabled a miracle to have the event happen.

But it's like this; while you can invent anything or indeed nothing much more than 'there is probably some explanation' -type evasions, the smart money is on that it is a made -up parable, because there is no much nonsense in the Bible and not only in Genesis, it is futile to try tom excuse the more absurd ones when can bet the day and night did not exist before the sun was made, the sun can hardly stop moving (that is the earth stops rotating) without dire consequences and so on throughout the Book.

Look, I know you think that denying everything and suggesting these was some unknown explanation, but the best case is the winner, not how much denial you can muster.

I'm not being evasive in the least. The Bible clearly reveals that two animals talked understandably to those they wished to communicate with. In the case of the "serpent" and Eve, it was clearly a case of satanic possession and GOD allowed the interaction by HIS permissive will. In the case of Balaam and his donkey, it's clear that GOD's intent was to warn Balaam that he was going to get himself killed by his persistent wrong actions. In this case, it was a miraculous intervention that Balaam understood.
The only thing I will add is that anyone who has a dog or a cat or some other pet they love --- that pet owner knows when that pet wishes to be feed, is in distress, sick, excited, and or just wants some love. I had a golden retriever who literally jumped in my arms and stated licking my face all over while yelping after I had been away at school for some months. It was most obvious to me that he loved and missed me and was so very happy to see his best loved human buddy!
If there is no GOD, these events cannot have happened. How much proof do you need that miracles happed and are still a possibility today. The miracle of SALVATION is the most astounding of all the miracles. And the one who experiences this knows he is loved by GOD which is something an unredeemed person cannot fathom in the least.

Thank you for answering but it isn't good enough. There is NO indication that Satan entered the serpent (or lizard, before the legs went missing) but it was a particularly wise animal and it told the truth so far as it knew. Godknew that humans would not die (unless he engineered it) but feared that humans, knowng morals, would become like gods, just as God was bothered by the Ziggurat of Babel; which was also daft (1) and which shows God to be a bit of a dope - and did not know the future. Unless Satan (or the snake) is being used by God to execute His Plan to bring Sin into the world. Whyever God would want to do this mess and try to sort it out with a crucifixion used as a sacrifice, is beyond understanding (cue: God knows what He is doing) and is why I believe the Bible is just the invention of men and is Not True.

Your suggestion about Balaam's ass is little more than the 'God had his reasons' evasion, which is an excuse, not an explanation. And your attempt to equate an argument with the donkey with the human delusion that animals interacting with humans equals Understanding, is simply evasion. It is nothing like the same thing.

Look, even if you really thought that was a good explanation, it will not wash with anyone not desiring to be hogwashed. That is, anyone who thought Eden and Balaam were just wrong and tall tales is not going to buy your attempts to explain them away. Like the majority of Bible apologetics, it is evasion and excuses by the Believer to keep their Faith and it will not convince anyone who does not desire to be convinced. This is a basic of apologetics and is the basic misconception of Bible apologists - they think it is about their denial and excuses, when it is actually about who has the best logical and evidential case, or should be.

This applies to everything from the Creation conflicting with science, to Paul conflicting with the Resurrection -accounts. It is why I (we) are here, because people do not get to hear these contradictions, because the Bible experts don't tell them.

I have never, ever, heard anyone ask why John has no Transfiguration. This is a 'biggie, and is legitimate doubt and question, and the Bible apologists have been covering it up, and fooling people with apologetics excuses like yours. I'm not getting at you, our valued poster and pal , but this is how the Christian con works. Believers mislead other believers who then try to mislead us. And we are not having it. ,

i(1) the idea of heaven being 'up there' is wrong and God could not have thought that Babel was a threat. So we already have (in addition to the wrong order of Creation) things wrong in Genesis. How far will denial go before it is accepted that it is what men guessed, not what God knew? It is not fact or history and never could be.

[oldbadger]

The only thing I will add is that anyone who has a dog or a cat or some other pet they love --- that pet owner knows when that pet wishes to be feed, is in distress, sick, excited, and or just wants some love. I had a golden retriever who literally jumped in my arms and stated licking my face all over while yelping after I had been away at school for some months. It was most obvious to me that he loved and missed me and was so very happy to see his best loved human buddy!
If there is no GOD, these events cannot have happened. How much proof do you need that miracles happed and are still a possibility today. The miracle of SALVATION is the most astounding of all the miracles. And the one who experiences this knows he is loved by GOD which is something an unredeemed person cannot fathom in the least.

Oh...... !
So that's all it was, an interaction between snakes or donkeys between humans got expanded in to stories of such creatures chatting in human languages...... Yeah, fine....no great miracles, those.
Religious mania does seem to explode everyday events in to the supernatural.
The gospel of Mark has turned so many actions of Jesus in to the supernatural. And the other gospels just kept on increasing the tales so that in G-John spirit castings and mere healings were obviously considered to be above the new religion's God.

[LittleNipper]

The only thing I will add is that anyone who has a dog or a cat or some other pet they love --- that pet owner knows when that pet wishes to be feed, is in distress, sick, excited, and or just wants some love. I had a golden retriever who literally jumped in my arms and stated licking my face all over while yelping after I had been away at school for some months. It was most obvious to me that he loved and missed me and was so very happy to see his best loved human buddy!
If there is no GOD, these events cannot have happened. How much proof do you need that miracles happed and are still a possibility today. The miracle of SALVATION is the most astounding of all the miracles. And the one who experiences this knows he is loved by GOD which is something an unredeemed person cannot fathom in the least.

Oh...... !
So that's all it was, an interaction between snakes or donkeys between humans got expanded in to stories of such creatures chatting in human languages...... Yeah, fine....no great miracles, those.
Religious mania does seem to explode everyday events in to the supernatural.
The gospel of Mark has turned so many actions of Jesus in to the supernatural. And the other gospels just kept on increasing the tales so that in G-John spirit castings and mere healings were obviously considered to be above the new religion's God.

Luke:8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased. He had wanted to see Him for a long time, because he had heard about Him and was hoping to see Him perform a miracle. 9 Herod questioned Jesus at great length, but He gave no answer.

[LittleNipper]

.

I feel that you might just be kidding; however, since GOD exists and since the Bible has been inspired by GOD, and since GOD created everything --- then I see no reason under GOD's sun, why if GOD so chooses to allow an animal to communicate with a human that it cannot happen. Perhaps it was telepathic... I don't understand why people want to limit GOD's abilities. If one doesn't believe in GOD, then don't believe.

You've got that wrong......all wrong. For a start I do believe in God because I am a deist.
But I don't believe that means that my ducks and I are ever likely to talk about the weather.

However, to make light of miraculous events as silly, seems rather redundant of those who choose not to believe that the CREATOR is real. Without GOD there are no miracles, but then prove how life originated by making some biological life of your own. Until then, that's the atheist's own miraculous belief.

You keep telling me stuff that is funny.
The rulling force here and everywhere else is mother nature.
I know that you obey her EVERY command, and even today you will be commanded to stoop down and empty your bowels, just as I will. Your every moment is given by her until the day that you shall die.
Now you know that is true.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! THE SUPREME RULING FORCE HERE IS GOD --- deist or not! And Balaam and his donkey didn't talk about the weather, and neither did the serpent and Eve.

So you are talking about one -off miracles? What would the serpent and the donkey talk about when they weren't acting out OT screenplay? Why not the weather? It has to be that they didn't talk normally (just as they don't now) unless God waved a magic wand and they talked - just for that story.

But then you'd expect Eve or Balaam to express some surprise. "Hey, last time I asked, you swore blind you couldn't talk!" But it is accepted in the story without a blink.

Of course we know, don't we, that they are tall tales or parables; fairy tales, and there is no good reason to accept them (or anything else in the Bible) as valid, unless there is some good reason to. like the Caesarea inscription validated Pilate. But nothing really validated Jesus. And the Gabriel stone rather undermined the 3 day resurrection claim as well.

104 guests.That's a bit better.

I don't know what various kinds of animals communicate among themselves. In Eve's case, it's very likely everything was new to her. Yet, while Adam was still the only human, I do imagine that Adam interacted with animals and lovingly understood them. The world was still perfect and sinless. As for Balaam, an account of the event is given to reveal that GOD may willingly use one "ass" to educate another. The specifics of the event are not revealed...

That's pretty evasive. You evade tackling whether animals can or could communicate with humans or whether (as the balaam example strongly suggests) God enabled a miracle to have the event happen.

But it's like this; while you can invent anything or indeed nothing much more than 'there is probably some explanation' -type evasions, the smart money is on that it is a made -up parable, because there is no much nonsense in the Bible and not only in Genesis, it is futile to try tom excuse the more absurd ones when can bet the day and night did not exist before the sun was made, the sun can hardly stop moving (that is the earth stops rotating) without dire consequences and so on throughout the Book.

Look, I know you think that denying everything and suggesting these was some unknown explanation, but the best case is the winner, not how much denial you can muster.

I'm not being evasive in the least. The Bible clearly reveals that two animals talked understandably to those they wished to communicate with. In the case of the "serpent" and Eve, it was clearly a case of satanic possession and GOD allowed the interaction by HIS permissive will. In the case of Balaam and his donkey, it's clear that GOD's intent was to warn Balaam that he was going to get himself killed by his persistent wrong actions. In this case, it was a miraculous intervention that Balaam understood.
The only thing I will add is that anyone who has a dog or a cat or some other pet they love --- that pet owner knows when that pet wishes to be feed, is in distress, sick, excited, and or just wants some love. I had a golden retriever who literally jumped in my arms and stated licking my face all over while yelping after I had been away at school for some months. It was most obvious to me that he loved and missed me and was so very happy to see his best loved human buddy!
If there is no GOD, these events cannot have happened. How much proof do you need that miracles happed and are still a possibility today. The miracle of SALVATION is the most astounding of all the miracles. And the one who experiences this knows he is loved by GOD which is something an unredeemed person cannot fathom in the least.

Thank you for answering but it isn't good enough. There is NO indication that Satan entered the serpent (or lizard, before the legs went missing) but it was a particularly wise animal and it told the truth so far as it knew. Godknew that humans would not die (unless he engineered it) but feared that humans, knowng morals, would become like gods, just as God was bothered by the Ziggurat of Babel; which was also daft (1) and which shows God to be a bit of a dope - and did not know the future. Unless Satan (or the snake) is being used by God to execute His Plan to bring Sin into the world. Whyever God would want to do this mess and try to sort it out with a crucifixion used as a sacrifice, is beyond understanding (cue: God knows what He is doing) and is why I believe the Bible is just the invention of men and is Not True.

Your suggestion about Balaam's ass is little more than the 'God had his reasons' evasion, which is an excuse, not an explanation. And your attempt to equate an argument with the donkey with the human delusion that animals interacting with humans equals Understanding, is simply evasion. It is nothing like the same thing.

Look, even if you really thought that was a good explanation, it will not wash with anyone not desiring to be hogwashed. That is, anyone who thought Eden and Balaam were just wrong and tall tales is not going to buy your attempts to explain them away. Like the majority of Bible apologetics, it is evasion and excuses by the Believer to keep their Faith and it will not convince anyone who does not desire to be convinced. This is a basic of apologetics and is the basic misconception of Bible apologists - they think it is about their denial and excuses, when it is actually about who has the best logical and evidential case, or should be.

This applies to everything from the Creation conflicting with science, to Paul conflicting with the Resurrection -accounts. It is why I (we) are here, because people do not get to hear these contradictions, because the Bible experts don't tell them.

I have never, ever, heard anyone ask why John has no Transfiguration. This is a 'biggie, and is legitimate doubt and question, and the Bible apologists have been covering it up, and fooling people with apologetics excuses like yours. I'm not getting at you, our valued poster and pal , but this is how the Christian con works. Believers mislead other believers who then try to mislead us. And we are not having it. ,

i(1) the idea of heaven being 'up there' is wrong and God could not have thought that Babel was a threat. So we already have (in addition to the wrong order of Creation) things wrong in Genesis. How far will denial go before it is accepted that it is what men guessed, not what God knew? It is not fact or history and never could be.

You need to go back and reread the entire Genesis account. ONLY CHRIST IS GOD --- ONLY HE TRANFIGURES.

[TRANSPONDER]

You are floundering. I know the Genesis account and that it makes no sense and conflicts with science (assuming one does not deny science). And John has no transfiguration. So I argue there wasn't one or he would have mentioned it, just as I argue that Luke invented the account of Jesus being bussed over for Herod (Antipas) to look at. How do we know? Because the knocking about is ascribed to Antipas' guards so the Romans don't do it. He makes several such contradictory changes in the gospel account.

[oldbadger]

Luke:8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased. He had wanted to see Him for a long time, because he had heard about Him and was hoping to see Him perform a miracle. 9 Herod questioned Jesus at great length, but He gave no answer.

Do you know what areas Herod had control of? Any ideas?
Do you know why Jesus would not have wanted to talk to Herod? Any ideas?

I don't expect you to be able to answer the above, but let's see.

[LittleNipper]

Luke:8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased. He had wanted to see Him for a long time, because he had heard about Him and was hoping to see Him perform a miracle. 9 Herod questioned Jesus at great length, but He gave no answer.

Do you know what areas Herod had control of? Any ideas?
Do you know why Jesus would not have wanted to talk to Herod? Any ideas?

I don't expect you to be able to answer the above, but let's see.

I don't suspect that you really care one way or the other...

[TRANSPONDER]

Luke:8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased. He had wanted to see Him for a long time, because he had heard about Him and was hoping to see Him perform a miracle. 9 Herod questioned Jesus at great length, but He gave no answer.

Do you know what areas Herod had control of? Any ideas?
Do you know why Jesus would not have wanted to talk to Herod? Any ideas?

I don't expect you to be able to answer the above, but let's see.

I don't suspect that you really care one way or the other...

That's not he point. What you said above shows the continual problem of thinking the discussion is about who can argue down (if not persuade) the other. But it is actually what case can be made to the people looking in to see their questions answered or their bias confirmed.

Thus refusal to answer points with variants on "there is no point talking to a closed mind" looks bad apologetics, and it is.

We are all talking to closed minds here it is the name of the game. But we should make the best case we possibly can or we are letting team Christian or team Bedammed down, and refusal to answer is just conceding points to the other side while sitting grumbling denial and refusing to testify.