Paul Never Existed

[The Nice Centurion]

Additionally we got a good possibility that Paul never existed!

Yeah, sure.

Go with that.

Question for debate:

Is that true ?

What are the pro & contra ?

[Tcg]

You need to understand that lying is a High Sin, and that lying in these matters will irreparably cost you your Eternal Destiny. What I am telling you is that repentance won't Save you now.

Your attempt to revise History will not help you in Eternity, and will hang about that your rubber neck all the way to your grave, like an albatross.

Moderator Comment

Please read the rules before posting any further. You either haven't read the following or are ignoring it:

1. Personal attacks of any sort are not allowed. Comments about any person that are negative, condescending, frivolous or indicate in any way a lack of respect are not allowed.


Please review the Rules.





______________



Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[1213]

....Paul was a Sanhedrin Mole, embedded to destroy Christianity from within, even at the cost of his own Soul- his words, not mine....

Please tell, what words do you mean?

[TRANSPONDER]

....Paul was a Sanhedrin Mole, embedded to destroy Christianity from within, even at the cost of his own Soul- his words, not mine....

Please tell, what words do you mean?

Oh, you know that - Paul said himself (And i credit his own letters up to - say - Philemon) that he worked with the sanhedrin (Saducce - dominated, the Boethius clan pretty much owned the priesthood) to get Jesus' followers arrested.

I think that those who will not argue that Paul never existed - and that includes me - will accept that Saul was originally any the Jesus party.The disagreement or debate comes with why.

Our pal oaroloye calls Paul a Sanhedrin mole. I know there are some theories that have Paul trying to destroy Christianity, either in its' Jewish messianist form (I think it was zealot -subversive) or in its' Gentile - friendly form, which Paul rather seems to be supporting.

But I have other business, and I'll have to re -read the hypothesis again. Right.....well I won't go so far as to claim that everyone from Caiaphas to Cephas was collaborating to cover up Yeshua's words. For one thing, I reckon Paul's Christian Greek followers could do that very well, especially and none of them heard or cared what Jesus' actual disciples had to say about it.

[fredonly]

Paul said himself (And i credit his own letters up to - say - Philemon) that he worked with the sanhedrin (Saducce - dominated, the Boethius clan pretty much owned the priesthood) to get Jesus' followers arrested.

The only reference I can find of Paul discussing his persecution of Christians is Gal4:29. Where does he provide this additional detail?

[TRANSPONDER]

Paul said himself (And i credit his own letters up to - say - Philemon) that he worked with the sanhedrin (Saducce - dominated, the Boethius clan pretty much owned the priesthood) to get Jesus' followers arrested.

The only reference I can find of Paul discussing his persecution of Christians is Gal4:29. Where does he provide this additional detail?

I think it is only that in Paul's words, and it is Acts that has it that he got authority from the sanhedrin.

9 “I too was convinced that I ought to do all that was possible to oppose the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 And that is just what I did in Jerusalem. On the authority of the chief priests I put many of the Lord’s people in prison, and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them. 11 Many a time I went from one synagogue to another to have them punished, and I tried to force them to blaspheme. I was so obsessed with persecuting them that I even hunted them down in foreign cities".

Not that I trust Acts any further than I could spit it, but Luke makes a fair assumption that Saul (as he was) could not have had authority to persecute anyone unless given the endorsement of the Sanhedrin, which generally was controlled by the Sadducees, which was effectgively run by the Boethius clan,to which Caiaphas had become part of by marriage.

That is if we know that from historical records and it hasn't been taken from the gospels. Josephus touches on the power struggles in the sanhedrin, apparently between the established High priesthood related to Ananus (The Boethius clan) and others who got elected, and we can guess it was by Pharisee priests who outvoted the Sadducees and the Boethius clan had them removed.

That, and that the Sadducees were cozy with the Roman governorship and the pharisees (being more zealot) were not suggests that Paul sided with Roman authority against the unruly Nazarenes because he was a Roman citizen, not because they preached Jesus risen. And that is the problem of how and why Paul converted.It isn't because Paul saw the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus (which is the guesswork of Luke in Acts, but because he saw it as an answer to some problems he had.

But that is just my own pet theory, which will not interest any who insist that Acts is broadly reliable.

Part list of High priests (Jewish Encyclopaedia)
59. Simon, son of Bœthus (perhaps Bœthus himself; xv. 9, § 3; xvii. 4, § 2)
60. Mattathias, son of Theophilus (xvii. 6, § 4)
Joseph, son of Ellem (one day; xvii. 6, § 4; see Grätz in "Monatsschrift," 1881, pp. 51 et seq.)
61. Joazar, son of Bœthus (xvii. 6, § 4)
(Under Archeiaus.)
62. Eleazar, son of Bœthus (xvii. 13, § 1)
63. Jesus, son of Sie (Σιε; xvii. 13, § 1)
(Joazar reappointed; xviii. 1. § 1; 2, § 1)
(Under Quirinius.)
64. Ananus, son of Seth (xviii. 2, § 2; Luke iii. 2)
(Under Valorius Gratus.)
65. Ismael, son of Phabi (xviii. 2, § 2)
66. Eleazar, son of Ananus (xviii. 2, § 2)
67. Simon, son of Camithus (xviii. 2, § 2)
68. Joseph (called "Caiaphas" (xviii. 2, § 2; 4, § 3; Matt. xxvi. 3, 57)
(Under Vitellius.)
69. Jonathan, son of Ananus (xviii. 4, § 3; "B. J." ii. 12, §§ 5-6; 13, § 3)
70. Theophilus, son of Ananus (xviii. 5, § 3)
(Under Agrippa.)
71. Simon, or Cantheras, son of Bœthus (xix. 6, § 2; see Grätz., "Gesch." 4th ed., iii. 739-746)
72. Mattathias, son of Ananus (xix. 6, § 4)
73. Elioneus, son of Cantheras (xix. 8, § 1; Parah iii. 5)

[oaroloye]

[Replying to 1213 in post #72]

Sorry for not responding promptly.

Paul himself said that he would give up his own Soul to help Y'srael here:

. ROMANS 9:1-5.

I SAY The Truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2. That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my Brethren, my Kinsmen according to the flesh:
4. Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and The Glory, and The Covenants, and the giving of The Law, and the service of God, and The Promises;
5. Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

THIS IS AN EXPLICIT BETRAYAL OF LORD YESHUA, WHO LITERALLY STATED THAT BLOOD RELATIONSHIPS ARE IRRELEVANT.

. MATTHEW 10:34-38.

34. "Think not that I am come
to send Peace on Earth:
I came not to send Peace,
but a sword.
35. "For I am come
to set a man
at variance against his father;
and the daughter
against her mother;
and the daughter-in-law
against her mother-in-law.
36. "And a man's foes (shall be)
they of his own household.
37e that loveth
father or mother
more than me
is not worthy of me:
and he that loveth son or daughter
more than me is not worthy of me."

. MATTHEW 23:9.

9. "And call no man your father
upon the Earth:
for one is your Father,
Which is in Heaven."

. LUKE 8:19-21.

19. Then came to him
his mother and his brethren,
and could not come at him
for the press.
20. And it was told him
by certain which said,

"Thy mother and thy brethren
stand without,
desiring to see thee."

21. And he Answered
and Said unto them,

"My Mother and my Brethren
are these which hear
The Word of God,
and do it."


. LUKE 14:25-35.

25. And there went
great multitudes with him:
and he turned,
and Said unto them,

26. "If any man come to me,
and hate not
his father, and mother,
and wife, and children,
and brethren,
and sisters,
yea, and his own life also,
he cannot be my Disciple.
27. "And whosoever doth not
bear his cross,
and come after me,
cannot be my Disciple.
28. "For which of you,
intending to build a tower,
sitteth not down first,
and counteth the cost,
whether he have
sufficient to finish it?
29. "Lest haply,
after he hath laid the foundation,
and is not able to finish it,
all that behold it begin to mock him,
30. "Saying,

'THIS MAN BEGAN TO BUILD,
AND WAS NOT ABLE TO FINISH.'

31. "Or what king,
going to make war
against another king,
sitteth not down first,
and consulteth whether he be able
with ten thousand to meet him
that cometh against him
with twenty thousand?
32. "Or else, while the other
is yet a great way off,
he sendeth an ambassage,
and desireth conditions of peace.
33. "So likewise,
whosoever he be of you
that forsaketh not all that he hath,
he cannot be my Disciple.
34. "Salt is good:
but if the salt have lost his savour,
wherewith shall it be seasoned?
35. "It is neither fit for the land,
nor yet for the dunghill;
but men cast it out.
He that hath ears to hear,
let him hear."

PAUL BLATANTLY DISREGARDED LORD YESHUA'S TEACHINGS- WHICH HE GOT AWAY WITH, HAVING HELPED KILL THE LAST DISCIPLES WILLING TO PREACH THEM.

The Apostles had obviously all sworn Blood-Sacrifice Oaths, that they would never teach nor preach Lord Yeshua's Teachings ever again. That would be the only way they could have been allowed to operate out of Yasharaylim for decades, while Lord Yeshua himself was killed the first week.

Paul placed his relationship with Y'srael above his relationship with God and with Lord Yeshua.

If he had respected them, he would not care about the people who all stood by, and watched Lord Yeshua die.

Those people deserved nothing, and got nothing. After doing that, God no longer respected them as Y'srael.


. NUMBERS 15:27-31.

27. "And if any Soul Sin
through ignorance,
then he shall bring a she goat
of the first year
for a Sin Offering.
28. And the Priest
shall make an Atonement
for the Soul that Sinneth Ignorantly,
when he Sinneth by Ignorance
before The LORD,
to make an Atonement for him;
and it shall be forgiven him.
29. "Ye shall have One Law
for him that Sinneth through Ignorance,
both for him that is born
among the Children of Israel,
and for the Stranger that sojourneth
among them.
30. "But the Soul
that doeth ought presumptuously,
whether he be
born in the land,
or a Stranger,
the same Reproacheth
The LORD;
and that Soul shall be cut off
from among his people.
31. "Because he hath despised
The Word of The LORD,
and hath broken His Commandment,
that Soul shall utterly be cut off;
his Iniquity shall be upon him."

EVEN THE JEWS PRETEND THAT THESE SCRIPTURES DO NOT EXIST- THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE "613 MITZVOT" LIST.

Therefore they can pretend that they are still part of Israel, even after committing blatant Sins.

Those who left Lord Yeshua to suffer and die gave up their Y'sraelite membership.

As did Paul.

[Tcg]

[Replying to 1213 in post #72]


PAUL BLATANTLY DISREGARDED LORD YESHUA'S TEACHINGS- WHICH HE GOT AWAY WITH, HAVING HELPED KILL THE LAST DISCIPLES WILLING TO PREACH THEM.

The Apostles had obviously all sworn Blood-Sacrifice Oaths, that they would never teach nor preach Lord Yeshua's Teachings ever again. That would be the only way they could have been allowed to operate out of Yasharaylim for decades, while Lord Yeshua himself was killed the first week.

Paul placed his relationship with Y'srael above his relationship with God and with Lord Yeshua.

If he had respected them, he would not care about the people who all stood by, and watched Lord Yeshua die.

Those people deserved nothing, and got nothing. After doing that, God no longer respected them as Y'srael.


EVEN THE JEWS PRETEND THAT THESE SCRIPTURES DO NOT EXIST- THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE "613 MITZVOT" LIST.

Therefore they can pretend that they are still part of Israel, even after committing blatant Sins.

Those who left Lord Yeshua to suffer and die gave up their Y'sraelite membership.

As did Paul.

Moderator Warning



You obviously didn't read the rules as you were advised to or are blatantly ignoring them. You are off to a very bad start here.

Please review our Rules.



______________



Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[1213]

...The Apostles had obviously all sworn Blood-Sacrifice Oaths, that they would never teach nor preach Lord Yeshua's Teachings ever again. That would be the only way they could have been allowed to operate out of Yasharaylim for decades, while Lord Yeshua himself was killed the first week....

Sorry, I don't think that is true.

NUMBERS 15:27-31.

27. "And if any Soul Sin
through ignorance,
then he shall bring a she goat
of the first year
for a Sin Offering.
28. And the Priest
shall make an Atonement
for the Soul that Sinneth Ignorantly,
when he Sinneth by Ignorance
before The LORD,
to make an Atonement for him;
and it shall be forgiven him.
29. "Ye shall have One Law
for him that Sinneth through Ignorance,
both for him that is born
among the Children of Israel,
and for the Stranger that sojourneth
among them.
30. "But the Soul
that doeth ought presumptuously,
whether he be
born in the land,
or a Stranger,
the same Reproacheth
The LORD;
and that Soul shall be cut off
from among his people.
31. "Because he hath despised
The Word of The LORD,
and hath broken His Commandment,
that Soul shall utterly be cut off;
his Iniquity shall be upon him."

EVEN THE JEWS PRETEND THAT THESE SCRIPTURES DO NOT EXIST- THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE "613 MITZVOT" LIST.

Therefore they can pretend that they are still part of Israel, even after committing blatant Sins.
...

So, are you saying people should make those sin offerings still?