The Bible's Biggest Problem(s)?

[POI]

In a continuation of this topic (viewtopic.php?t=39327&start=990), which only discusses one important topic, I present a follow-up....

For Debate:

1) Why didn't Jesus write the NT Himself? Why leave this task up to fallible humans to write what was floating around, only after decade(s) of oral traditions? Wouldn't Jesus know that earnest confusion would soon prevail, and that his true message(s) may get fouled up by human error and/or corruption?

2) Case/point: There exists countless denominations, with opposing belief systems, all in earnest in reading the exact same collection of books. If Jesus' intent is to convey truth, why not assure his message(s) are crystal clear and unified for all?

3) If Jesus also recognizes that many/most were/are illiterate, and/or the many who are literate merely read at a lower grade level, and that differing languages can also blur the message(s), why not write the Bible in a cohesive way in which even the most rudimentary person can understand, in all languages?

This is, in part, the problem of communication....

[JehovahsWitness]

How do you know some people getting the bible "dead wrong" was not part of Jesus plan?

Why would this be part of his plan?

You are answering the question with a question. Even if you cannot think of a reason, do you KNOW that the above was not part of his plan?

Are you arguing that Jesus may possibly have intentionally offered a confusing message?

I am arguing that your argument is based on an unknown and unproven premise, and questioning what evidence (if any) your assumption is based on.

Obviously, if Jesus intention was the elimination of any possible dissent or even a universally accepted religion regardless of any other factors, then that aim has not been achieved. But since I do not know of any philosophical, theological or social movement where this has ever been the case, or even arguably the goal, it seems reasonable to question if we are observing an error or an intented variable.

[POI]

Obviously, if Jesus intention was the elimination of any possible dissent or even a universally accepted religion regardless of any other factors, then that aim has not been achieved.

But since I do not know of any philosophical, theological or social movement where this has ever been the case, or even arguably the goal, it seems reasonable to question if we are observing an error or an intented variable.

Would you agree that when Jesus was alive and gave direct teachings to his followers/other, one of the objections to his intended messaging was not based upon a misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying?

[JehovahsWitness]

Would you agree that when Jesus was alive and gave direct teachings to his followers/other, one of the objections to his intended messaging was not based upon a misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying?

What evidence do you have that when Jesus was alive he gave direct teachings to his followers? Unsupported Bible quotations? Back to the point at hand, what evidence do you have to support one assumption over another as far as Jesus aims are concerned ?

[POI]

Would you agree that when Jesus was alive and gave direct teachings to his followers/other, one of the objections to his intended messaging was not based upon a misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying?

We only have the bible records of what Jesus did or said, are you saying your argument is entirely and uniquely based on Christian scripture. My understanding is that the bible is not authorative in this forum.

You did not address my response.

Would you agree that when Jesus was alive and gave direct teachings to his followers/other, one of the objections to his intended messaging was not based upon a misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying?

[JehovahsWitness]

You did not address my response.

Your response includes no supportive evidence. What is the basis for your question? I'm not going to voice ageement or disagreement as you have not presented a solid case either way.

What evidence do you have that when Jesus was alive he gave direct teachings to his followers? Unsupported Bible quotations?

[POI]

You did not address my response.

Would you agree that when Jesus was alive and gave direct teachings to his followers/other, one of the objections to his intended messaging was not based upon a misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying?

Your response includes no supportive evidence.

What evidence do you have that when Jesus was alive he gave direct teachings to his followers? Unsupported Bible quotations?

Great! And since you agree that all we have is the Bible,, you admit to applying absolute blind faith to your most valued core belief. And yet, I doubt you apply this rationale to all facets of your life. Ironically, only just arguably the most important one.

[JehovahsWitness]

You did not address my response.

Would you agree that when Jesus was alive and gave direct teachings to his followers/other, one of the objections to his intended messaging was not based upon a misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying?

Your response includes no supportive evidence.

What evidence do you have that when Jesus was alive he gave direct teachings to his followers? Unsupported Bible quotations?

Great!

What's great about it? You make an unsupoorted assumption and when asked for evidence to support your premise (ie that Jesus intended a testiomny that would eliminate all possible dissent or misunderstanding) you failed to do so.

... since you agree that all we have is the Bible, you admit to applying absolute blind faith to your most valued core belief. And yet, I doubt you apply this rationale to all facets of your life. Ironically, only just arguably the most important one

(I dont see and mention of myself in the OP so personal remarks about my values are, I think uncalled for. Let's just stick to the POSTS rather than the posters shall we? I don't see any need to get personal)

[POI]

You make an unsupoorted assumption and when asked for evidence to support your premise you fail to do so.

To not agree with my "assumption" is to instead take the position that not only is the Bible directed at deliberate confusion, but when Jesus gave direct messages to physical followers/other, they too were sometimes left with confusion.

So, what is your position(s)?

1) Was Jesus pleased with the messaging of the Bible?

2) Did direct followers at least clearly understand what Jesus's intended message(s) were?

[JehovahsWitness]

You make an unsupoorted assumption and when asked for evidence to support your premise you fail to do so.

To not agree with my "assumption" is to instead take the position that not only is the Bible directed at deliberate confusion, but when Jesus gave direct messages to physical followers/other, they too were sometimes left with confusion.

Thats quite a dichotomy you have there; I am not voicing agreement nor am I voicing disagreement, I am simply asking you a question: upon what basis do you assume to reject the notion that things have not turned out exactly as Jesus intended?

Its a question, there is no need to ressort to hyperbole or (false dichotomy)

If you wish to ask me a personal question may I suggest a more appropriate forum:
viewforum.php?f=26

[POI]

Thats quite a dichotomy you have there

A true dichotomy would be A or not A. Based upon your responses, you either agree with my 'assumption', or disagree with my assumption. To disagree issues the following given alternative. One that backs you right into an intellectual corner.

I am not voicing agreement nor am I voicing disagreement,

Please state your position, or this conversation will not be productive.

upon what basis do you assume to reject the notion that things have not turned out exactly as Jesus intended?

1) To assume it was all intended, would mean Jesus is/was pleased that the vast majority of earnest attempting followers get/got the messaging completely wrong.

2) To assume it was not intended, is basically game over. Hence, I guess this is why you MUST choose option 1)

So, what is your position(s)?

A) Was Jesus pleased with the messaging of the Bible?

B) Did direct followers at least clearly understand what Jesus's intended message(s) were?