2 Questions

[POI]

1. Why did God create anything at all?
2. What arena/space/other did God dwell within or upon before he first had to create it?

[William]

The mind is often thought to be immaterial yet exists within the physical realm, so evidently the immaterial does interact within physical reality.

[POI]

Since immaterial things are non-physical and spatial characteristics are features of physical things, immaterial things cannot have spatial relations.

Does this include heaven?

No. Heaven is not a wholely immaterial thing.

If spatial relations do not exist for God, how might one distinguish where God is or isn't in heaven?

[POI]

The mind is often thought to be immaterial yet exists within the physical realm, so evidently the immaterial does interact within physical reality.

Are you referring to "substance dualism"?

[Purple Knight]

2. Why would an unbeliever in God, concern himself with a dwelling place of a God that he doesn't believe in?

Here is a thread where hundreds of people care about the true paternity of a fictional character that most people don't even like.



...In direct answer, this is just how people engage with stories, whether we think they're true or not. Personally I read the creation story as God being from another dimension, and the dimension we occupy now was absolutely empty before he got to it. Reason being he created the heavens, too.

[SiNcE_1985]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #24]

It's the same, but different.

[The Tanager]

If spatial relations do not exist for God, how might one distinguish where God is or isn't in heaven?

Whey would there have to be any place in heaven where God is not?

[POI]

If spatial relations do not exist for God, how might one distinguish where God is or isn't in heaven?

Whey would there have to be any place in heaven where God is not?

Doesn't the Bible state God created humans in his image? Is this just metaphor?

If one cannot distinguish where God is, and is not, then how might one ever identify and/or address God while in heaven?

Further, if God is not distinguishable, in spatial relations, why do so many raise their hands (up), or look (up), or point (up), when addressing him? In other words, could some of them possibly be mistaken in their earnest beliefs about the spatial relations of God, or, are you?

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Then circling back to the first question.... What was the reason(s) for ever creating a defined material space? Further, is God the only (one/agency/thing/other) which is completely immaterial?

[The Tanager]

Doesn't the Bible state that God created humans in his image? Is this just metaphor?

Yes, it's metaphor.

If one cannot distinguish where God is, and is not, then how might one ever identify and/or address God while in heaven?

They wouldn't be able to. But distinguishing via physical features is not the only way to distinguish things. Mathematical concepts are distinguishable from each other without being physical. The concept of love is distinguishable from the concept of hate without being physical things.

Further, if God is not distinguishable, in spatial relations, why do so many raise their hands (up), or look (up), or point (up), when addressing him? In other words, could some of them possibly be mistaken in their earnest beliefs about the spatial relations of God or, are you?

Many lower their hands, look down, point inward, when addressing him as well. Not all who do so believe God is spatially located, especially when reflecting on this more deeply, but some do. Either I am mistaken or they are, yes.

Then circling back to the first question...What was the reason(s) for ever creating a defined material space?

I believe God freely chose to create a defined material space. He didn't have to, but felt it was a good thing to do, to have creatures like us and the various other animals, and planets and stars, etc. Do you think a defined material space is not a good thing?

Further, is God the only (one/agency/thing/other) which is completely immaterial?

I didn't say I think God is completely immaterial. As a Christian, I believe Jesus is God and, at a point in history, the Son permanently took on a material body, although post-Resurrection is matter that seemingly acts different than our material bodies do.

But to answer the question, I do think there are (or at least definitely could be) completely immaterial beings that aren't God.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

1. I would say that God freely chose to create and chose to create what He did because he felt it was good.

2. This question doesn't make sense. A non-physical being cannot, by definition, dwell within something like physical beings do.

I think Q2 comes from a particular reading of Genesis 1:1 .ie if God created "the heavens" and God lives in heaven, where was he before he created somewhere to live?



JW

DISCLAIMER: I hereby state for the record the above comment contains an unsupported Bible reference, that is considered no more authoritative than unsupported quotations from any other book in this forum.

The above is specifically used ONLY to show what the bible says and what Christianity says.

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This post is NOT for the purpose if having a theological discussion but to propose a possible response to the OP. I am making no claim , nor is the bible reference for the purpose of proving that Christianity is true.
[/quote]

[POI]

Yes, it's metaphor.

How do we know this passage of "humans are created in God's image" is intended to be a mere metaphor?

They wouldn't be able to.

Noted.

But distinguishing via physical features is not the only way to distinguish things. Mathematical concepts are distinguishable from each other without being physical. The concept of love is distinguishable from the concept of hate without being physical things.

Noted.

Many lower their hands, look down, point inward, when addressing him as well. Not all who do so believe God is spatially located, especially when reflecting on this more deeply, but some do. Either I am mistaken or they are, yes.

Is there a way to find out if God (does or does not) actually have definable spatial relation(s), like any other sentient being?

I believe God freely chose to create a defined material space. He didn't have to, but felt it was a good thing to do, to have creatures like us and the various other animals, and planets and stars, etc. Do you think a defined material space is not a good thing?

If God thinks definable material space is good, then why isn't God definable, via spatial relations?

I didn't say I think God is completely immaterial.

Is God definable, in spatial relations, or not?

As a Christian, I believe Jesus is God

How do you know if you are right?

at a point in history, the Son permanently took on a material body,

Since you believe Jesus is God, now God apparently does occupy spatial relations alone? Other? Please clarify.

although post-Resurrection is matter that seemingly acts different than our material bodies do.

How so? And how do you know?

But to answer the question, I do think there are (or at least definitely could be) completely immaterial beings that aren't God.

Such as? And also, why do you think so?