Jehovah's Witnesses and the Trinity Part 1

[SiNcE_1985]

.

No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

[Capbook]

Your responses are becoming shorter and shorter because you do not have the whole picture of Christ.

Here is another:

I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress (agony) until it is accomplished! Luke 12:50

Talk to me about the Lord's daily agony.

What did he agonize over?

What was distressing about his struggle?

How great was it?

If you believe Jesus is God, how much does that diminish the depth of his distress—compared to the truth about his real nature?

It's evident that your view stands in opposition to the teaching of the apostles—anyone reading this exchange can see that clearly

F2F

If you use literal word for word Bible translations our discussion will be productive. Paraphrase translations clearly misled many, as they changed Bible words and also add words to the original languages.
Of which major translators of NWT, F. Franz I believe lacks Greek credentials, where JW heavily based their beliefs.
And I believe that you were not taught to consult Bible lexicons, I might believe also misunderstood the meaning of "redeem".

Your response didn’t address Luke 12:50 or the questions raised.

Avoiding the core issues only highlights how ineffective your resistance is to the true Gospel preached by the apostles.

When you are ready to ask good questions of the Word of God let me know. Until then you remain self-deceived by the dogma.

F2F

If you agree that we both use literal word for word Bible translations we will see the truth, God's message for us.

Luke 12:50, that speaks of Jesus in human nature. Do you believe that Jesus as God needs baptism?
I do not believe that you don't experience fear, distressed and everything Jesus undergo as human just like you.
Have you not experience fear? distressed? If not then you are not human unlike Jesus when He was on earth.
I believe these are shallow arguments. That I feel not worth of attention, cause these are common sense.
Can you find any that's worth to be addressed?
The verse is the beginning of the prophesied sacrifice of Jesus in human nature.
Make importance of the term "prophesied sacrifice." And I believe you will understand the whole scenario.

Luke 12:50
50 "But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!
NASB

Shallow arguments? Jesus' suffering in sin's flesh shallow? Your ignorance is bold! I can't expect you to know him - that's not fair - it's like asking a chronically sick person to be healthy and well.

Your desease is in your mind!

"and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man." John 2:25

how did Jesus "know" what was in man?

What was Jesus redeemed from?

F2F

First define what you mean by "redeem" in Bible lexicon?
Gaslighting a strategy by a JW.

About John 2:25, Jesus knew what was in man because He had made all (John 1:3), and also because He is God in John 1:1 before became human. He emptied the form of God and the takes the form of a servant in the likeness of men. The feeling of fear, distressed and others are natural feelings of man approaching death, as to Jesus fulfilling the prophesied sacrifice.

I just don't know if you will feel fear, distressed and others when we are on our deathbed. If you don't then Jesus is more human than you.

[face2face]

If you use literal word for word Bible translations our discussion will be productive. Paraphrase translations clearly misled many, as they changed Bible words and also add words to the original languages.
Of which major translators of NWT, F. Franz I believe lacks Greek credentials, where JW heavily based their beliefs.
And I believe that you were not taught to consult Bible lexicons, I might believe also misunderstood the meaning of "redeem".

Your response didn’t address Luke 12:50 or the questions raised.

Avoiding the core issues only highlights how ineffective your resistance is to the true Gospel preached by the apostles.

When you are ready to ask good questions of the Word of God let me know. Until then you remain self-deceived by the dogma.

F2F

If you agree that we both use literal word for word Bible translations we will see the truth, God's message for us.

Luke 12:50, that speaks of Jesus in human nature. Do you believe that Jesus as God needs baptism?
I do not believe that you don't experience fear, distressed and everything Jesus undergo as human just like you.
Have you not experience fear? distressed? If not then you are not human unlike Jesus when He was on earth.
I believe these are shallow arguments. That I feel not worth of attention, cause these are common sense.
Can you find any that's worth to be addressed?
The verse is the beginning of the prophesied sacrifice of Jesus in human nature.
Make importance of the term "prophesied sacrifice." And I believe you will understand the whole scenario.

Luke 12:50
50 "But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!
NASB

Shallow arguments? Jesus' suffering in sin's flesh shallow? Your ignorance is bold! I can't expect you to know him - that's not fair - it's like asking a chronically sick person to be healthy and well.

Your desease is in your mind!

"and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man." John 2:25

how did Jesus "know" what was in man?

What was Jesus redeemed from?

F2F

First define what you mean by "redeem" in Bible lexicon?
Gaslighting a strategy by a JW.

About John 2:25, Jesus knew what was in man because He had made all (John 1:3), and also because He is God in John 1:1 before became human. He emptied the form of God and the takes the form of a servant in the likeness of men. The feeling of fear, distressed and others are natural feelings of man approaching death, as to Jesus fulfilling the prophesied sacrifice.

I just don't know if you will feel fear, distressed and others when we are on our deathbed. If you don't then Jesus is more human than you.

Jesus obtained eternal redemption...meaning he himself received immortality and now for the first time was eternal....death and it dominion was removed in his own body.

Because he was redeemed from the dominion of death and was raised because he was sinless you by faith can receive the same.

This is why Jesus is called the firstfruits or firstbegotten from the grave.

Any effort for you to remove salvation from and in Christ is futile!

F2F

[onewithhim]

A JW would simply interpret prepare the way of the Lord, as prepare the way for the work of the Lord via repentance according to John the Baptist. I don't see Isaiah 40:3 as " a Trinity-proof text, " or an indication that" Jesus is God".

You obviously did not read the entirety of the OP...and I say this respectfully.

The way is being prepared for Yahweh, in Isa 40:3, which is a prophecy for the way that was being prepared for Jesus, in Mark 1:1-8.

Isa 40:3 the way is for Yahweh.

Mark 1:1-8 the way is for Jesus.

Therefore, Jesus is Yahweh.

And it also just occurred to me that Jesus called himself "the way", in John 14:6...which is another gold nugget added to what was already there.

Simply put, we have to understand that Jesus is Jehovah's representative, and when the scripture says that Jehovah is "coming," it means that Jesus is coming as His representative. Jehovah is God Almighty and, as ruler of the universe, He wouldn't shrink Himself down to a speck of dust to come to the earth. "Clearing the way of Jehovah" means seeing His glory as a result of, in essence, and according to what men realize, making valleys raised up and every mountain made low....taking seriously what Jehovah says. It doesn't show that Jesus is Jehovah.

[Capbook]

Your response didn’t address Luke 12:50 or the questions raised.

Avoiding the core issues only highlights how ineffective your resistance is to the true Gospel preached by the apostles.

When you are ready to ask good questions of the Word of God let me know. Until then you remain self-deceived by the dogma.

F2F

If you agree that we both use literal word for word Bible translations we will see the truth, God's message for us.

Luke 12:50, that speaks of Jesus in human nature. Do you believe that Jesus as God needs baptism?
I do not believe that you don't experience fear, distressed and everything Jesus undergo as human just like you.
Have you not experience fear? distressed? If not then you are not human unlike Jesus when He was on earth.
I believe these are shallow arguments. That I feel not worth of attention, cause these are common sense.
Can you find any that's worth to be addressed?
The verse is the beginning of the prophesied sacrifice of Jesus in human nature.
Make importance of the term "prophesied sacrifice." And I believe you will understand the whole scenario.

Luke 12:50
50 "But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!
NASB

Shallow arguments? Jesus' suffering in sin's flesh shallow? Your ignorance is bold! I can't expect you to know him - that's not fair - it's like asking a chronically sick person to be healthy and well.

Your desease is in your mind!

"and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man." John 2:25

how did Jesus "know" what was in man?

What was Jesus redeemed from?

F2F

First define what you mean by "redeem" in Bible lexicon?
Gaslighting a strategy by a JW.

About John 2:25, Jesus knew what was in man because He had made all (John 1:3), and also because He is God in John 1:1 before became human. He emptied the form of God and the takes the form of a servant in the likeness of men. The feeling of fear, distressed and others are natural feelings of man approaching death, as to Jesus fulfilling the prophesied sacrifice.

I just don't know if you will feel fear, distressed and others when we are on our deathbed. If you don't then Jesus is more human than you.

Jesus obtained eternal redemption...meaning he himself received immortality and now for the first time was eternal....death and it dominion was removed in his own body.

Because he was redeemed from the dominion of death and was raised because he was sinless you by faith can receive the same.

This is why Jesus is called the firstfruits or firstbegotten from the grave.

Any effort for you to remove salvation from and in Christ is futile!

F2F

Strawman, I never implied salvation outside Jesus.

[face2face]

If you agree that we both use literal word for word Bible translations we will see the truth, God's message for us.

Luke 12:50, that speaks of Jesus in human nature. Do you believe that Jesus as God needs baptism?
I do not believe that you don't experience fear, distressed and everything Jesus undergo as human just like you.
Have you not experience fear? distressed? If not then you are not human unlike Jesus when He was on earth.
I believe these are shallow arguments. That I feel not worth of attention, cause these are common sense.
Can you find any that's worth to be addressed?
The verse is the beginning of the prophesied sacrifice of Jesus in human nature.
Make importance of the term "prophesied sacrifice." And I believe you will understand the whole scenario.

Luke 12:50
50 "But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!
NASB

Shallow arguments? Jesus' suffering in sin's flesh shallow? Your ignorance is bold! I can't expect you to know him - that's not fair - it's like asking a chronically sick person to be healthy and well.

Your desease is in your mind!

"and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man." John 2:25

how did Jesus "know" what was in man?

What was Jesus redeemed from?

F2F

First define what you mean by "redeem" in Bible lexicon?
Gaslighting a strategy by a JW.

About John 2:25, Jesus knew what was in man because He had made all (John 1:3), and also because He is God in John 1:1 before became human. He emptied the form of God and the takes the form of a servant in the likeness of men. The feeling of fear, distressed and others are natural feelings of man approaching death, as to Jesus fulfilling the prophesied sacrifice.

I just don't know if you will feel fear, distressed and others when we are on our deathbed. If you don't then Jesus is more human than you.

Jesus obtained eternal redemption...meaning he himself received immortality and now for the first time was eternal....death and it dominion was removed in his own body.

Because he was redeemed from the dominion of death and was raised because he was sinless you by faith can receive the same.

This is why Jesus is called the firstfruits or firstbegotten from the grave.

Any effort for you to remove salvation from and in Christ is futile!

F2F

Strawman, I never implied salvation outside Jesus.

Okay, so you agree Jesus was the first to be saved and in him is salvation!

Why was it important Jesus be saved from death?

Can you think of a Divine principle?

F2F

[face2face]

Scripture clearly teaches that the altar sanctified the gift that was placed upon it (Matt 23:19).

You are blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Mt 23:19.

If Capbook was to answer correctly, "the alter" then what of the altar?

The altar had to be cleansed.
The altar had to be atoned.
The altar had to be sanctified.
The altar had to be anointed.

Exodus 29:36–37

But what did the Altar represent?

F2F

[face2face]

Have you read? We have an altar that those who serve in the tabernacle have no right to eat from. Heb 13:10.

Who is our altar?

How is it impossible for this altar to be Yahweh God?

F2F

[face2face]

Trinitarians do not want to talk about the Altar - I get it.

How can God be the Altar and the offering on the Altar?

F2F

[Capbook]

Shallow arguments? Jesus' suffering in sin's flesh shallow? Your ignorance is bold! I can't expect you to know him - that's not fair - it's like asking a chronically sick person to be healthy and well.

Your desease is in your mind!

"and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man." John 2:25

how did Jesus "know" what was in man?

What was Jesus redeemed from?

F2F

First define what you mean by "redeem" in Bible lexicon?
Gaslighting a strategy by a JW.

About John 2:25, Jesus knew what was in man because He had made all (John 1:3), and also because He is God in John 1:1 before became human. He emptied the form of God and the takes the form of a servant in the likeness of men. The feeling of fear, distressed and others are natural feelings of man approaching death, as to Jesus fulfilling the prophesied sacrifice.

I just don't know if you will feel fear, distressed and others when we are on our deathbed. If you don't then Jesus is more human than you.

Jesus obtained eternal redemption...meaning he himself received immortality and now for the first time was eternal....death and it dominion was removed in his own body.

Because he was redeemed from the dominion of death and was raised because he was sinless you by faith can receive the same.

This is why Jesus is called the firstfruits or firstbegotten from the grave.

Any effort for you to remove salvation from and in Christ is futile!

F2F

Strawman, I never implied salvation outside Jesus.

Okay, so you agree Jesus was the first to be saved and in him is salvation!

Why was it important Jesus be saved from death?

Can you think of a Divine principle?

F2F

Jesus to be saved from death? Just because of Jesus being in human nature, felt fear, distressed and etc facing the prophesied sacrifice, your church made a doctrine out of it?

If Jesus was to be saved. Was He being saved from death to you?

Jesus is Divine from the beginning (John 1:1) emptied the form of God and take the form of a servant in the likeness of men to suffer death, shed His blood for us, and given us hope for reconciliation to the Father in faith.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #197]


1John 5:20=But we know the son of God has come and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one, and we are in union with the true one, by means of (HIS =( true God=true one) son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and everlasting life.

his and the true one is being called God, not Jesus.

I just believe you quote 1 John 5:20 from paraphrase translation, where JWs heavily relied to.
By using literal word for word Bible translation, who has the eternal life in 1 John 5:11?

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.