Who created all things?

[servant1]

Isaiah 44:24- This is what Jehovah has said, your repurchaser and the former of you from the belly. I Jehovah am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the Earth. Who was with me?

Myself= the only power source and designer. How do we know this-Because Jesus was involved as well-How?
Gen 1:26--Let US make man in our image-US = more than 1 being--Gen 1:27-HE( 1 being) created--Prov 8:27-28- HE( 1being) created.
So what does US mean then?= Us = Jehovah and his master worker( Prov 8:30)= the one beside God during creation, the one whom God grew especially fond of= his son.
Jesus= The firstborn of all creation--All creation occurred at the beginning--PROOF=Prov 8:22 Possessed me as the beginning of your way( creating). The Hebrew word used for possessed means-created. Thus created direct, first and last, all other things created-THROUGH( John 1:3, Col 1:160) Through = another did the creating).= Jehovah.-)--- things created through Gods master worker. The word only begotten son means monogenes=unique=created direct first and last.
Most religions teach untruth on this matter, but i have presented bible facts on it.
Do you believe the evidence?

[FruitoftheSpirit]

Who created all things?

Below we read prophecy of the promised Messiah where he is one of the people to whom our Creator gives the breath of life to and a spirit to walk therein.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Ephesians 5:9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

[/b]Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached BEFORE HIS COMING the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel....

...32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

The Creator who made all things is our God and YHVH is His name and He said He created it by Himself, alone He created.

Jesus is a son of Jesse, a son of David to whom YHVH our Creator puts his Spirit upon, calls him to righteousness and sends him out into the world for to be a light to both Jews and Gentiles. The light is sent AFTER John began preaching. Those who are righteous are born of God (1 John 3) and it is the Spirit dwelling in man that causes righteousness and righteousness brings forth eternal life. Further, those that are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God (Romans 8).

In our Creator YHVH's WORD from the beginning was a man who would fulfill all of YHVH's will, this man would be a son of David to whom YHVH would make into His own Son and settle him into His House forever (1 Chronicles 17). YHVH would make him into His messenger, make him into our savior, into a firstborn of many brethren, into a judge, and make him a king sitting on his father David's throne.

YHVH created earth for it to be inhabited and he predestined Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of Man who is returning in the glory of the Father (Matt 16:27), to be king overall the earth, exactly why we read that God created all things by (dia- by reason of) and for him.

Him is the firstborn overall of the New Creation, him is he who is firstborn of the dead, him is who we are joint heirs of God with, him is who we are to be made into the image of. Him is who said, "Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. (Mark 10:39-40) 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Him is he who was raised from the dead and RECEIVED THE PROMISED SPIRIT/WAS BEGOTTON OF THE SPIRIT.

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirt, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Scripture is clear, Jesus most certainly did not create all things, he didn't even pre-exist, he is the man to whom our Creator had ordained to judge the world.

Scripture is also clear that the Son of Man Jesus was most certainly in YHVH's Word even before the world began and he, as a promised firstborn of many brethren, is the reason why YHVH our Creator had made all things in the first place.

My position holds that any scripture interpreted in a manner that suggests or says that Jesus is our creator or even that he pre-existed, is a false interpretation. Those false interpretations, which I am quite aware of, serve in hiding the true meaning and they also cause God's word to be filled with contradiction thus rendering the bible unreliable.

[placebofactor]

Isaiah 44:24- This is what Jehovah has said, your repurchaser and the former of you from the belly. I Jehovah am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the Earth. Who was with me?

Wait one minute, in your N.W.T., you admit that the Son of God created all (other) things, he being created by the Father. Now you say it was Jehovah that stretched out the heavens and laid the earth. Make up your mind! If Jesus created all other things, then he is Jehovah who stretched out the heavens and laid out the earth.

Myself= the only power source and designer. How do we know this-Because Jesus was involved as well-How?
Gen 1:26--Let US make man in our image-US = more than 1 being--Gen 1:27-HE( 1 being) created--Prov 8:27-28- HE( 1being) created.
So what does US mean then?= Us = Jehovah and his master worker( Prov 8:30)= the one beside God during creation, the one whom God grew especially fond of= his son.
Jesus= The firstborn of all creation--All creation occurred at the beginning--PROOF=Prov 8:22 Possessed me as the beginning of your way( creating). The Hebrew word used for possessed means-created. Thus created direct, first and last, all other things created-THROUGH( John 1:3, Col 1:160) Through = another did the creating).= Jehovah.-)--- things created through Gods master worker. The word only begotten son means monogenes=unique=created direct first and last.
Most religions teach untruth on this matter, but i have presented bible facts on it.
Do you believe the evidence?

You need to get a new Greek to English Lexicon and look up the word "first-born" and see how it is applied to Jesus, compared to how it is applied to men. While you're at it, look up "only begotten" concerning Jesus. Try Thayer's Greek to English dictionary; it will give you the truth, not the nonsense the Watchtower Greek to English shovels out.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #4]


I asked in bing search--Which is correct for the Hebrew word at Prov 8:22, possessed or produced--Possessed( created) came up just like i show in this post.

Why used Bing, is it more authoritative than the word of God?
Yes, create is one of the definition of "possessed" but rarely used by word for word Bible translations.

Pro 8:22 “יהוה possessed me, The beginning of His way, As the first of His works of old.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Capbook in post #4]


I asked in bing search--Which is correct for the Hebrew word at Prov 8:22, possessed or produced--Possessed( created) came up just like i show in this post.

Why used Bing, is it more authoritative than the word of God?
Yes, create is one of the definition of "possessed" but rarely used by word for word Bible translations.

Pro 8:22 “יהוה possessed me, The beginning of His way, As the first of His works of old.

Well the American Standard Version translates that word as "formed," as noted in the margin. Taking into consideration what is in the margin, the verse would read: "Jehovah formed me, the first of his works of old." (Copyright 1901 by Thomas Nelson & Sons)

Are you going to fall back on "he was paraphrasing? or he didn't have any credentials? or some other reason to disregard his translation?

How about the NIV which renders it this way: "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works." Same reasoning as the ASV.

Check out the Revised Standard Version: "The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old." (Translated from the Original tongues, 1881)

The New American Bible: "The LORD begot me, the firstborn of his ways, the forerunner of his prodigies of long ago."

The ESV: "The LORD fathered me at the beginning of his work." Taking into consideration what it says in the margin.

The Message: "God sovereignly made me --the first, the basic--before he did anything else. I was brought into being a long time ago, well before the earth got its start."

[FruitoftheSpirit]

Isaiah 44:24- This is what Jehovah has said, your repurchaser and the former of you from the belly. I Jehovah am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the Earth. Who was with me?

Wait one minute, in your N.W.T., you admit that the Son of God created all (other) things, he being created by the Father. Now you say it was Jehovah that stretched out the heavens and laid the earth. Make up your mind! If Jesus created all other things, then he is Jehovah who stretched out the heavens and laid out the earth.

Myself= the only power source and designer. How do we know this-Because Jesus was involved as well-How?
Gen 1:26--Let US make man in our image-US = more than 1 being--Gen 1:27-HE( 1 being) created--Prov 8:27-28- HE( 1being) created.
So what does US mean then?= Us = Jehovah and his master worker( Prov 8:30)= the one beside God during creation, the one whom God grew especially fond of= his son.
Jesus= The firstborn of all creation--All creation occurred at the beginning--PROOF=Prov 8:22 Possessed me as the beginning of your way( creating). The Hebrew word used for possessed means-created. Thus created direct, first and last, all other things created-THROUGH( John 1:3, Col 1:160) Through = another did the creating).= Jehovah.-)--- things created through Gods master worker. The word only begotten son means monogenes=unique=created direct first and last.
Most religions teach untruth on this matter, but i have presented bible facts on it.
Do you believe the evidence?

You need to get a new Greek to English Lexicon and look up the word "first-born" and see how it is applied to Jesus, compared to how it is applied to men. While you're at it, look up "only begotten" concerning Jesus. Try Thayer's Greek to English dictionary; it will give you the truth, not the nonsense the Watchtower Greek to English shovels out.

monogenes single of its kind, only

Fact, Jesus was the only mortal man to have God's Spirit come to dwell in him without measure (John 3).

Fact, YHVH''s WORD by the prophet Isaiah was that YHVH would place His Spirit within a Son of Man. This man would be called to righteousness and be for a light to both Jews and Gentiles. This man filled with the Spirit would be SENT out to speak God's word of truth, do God's works and deliver captives. Such was all a glory that YHVH promised to give to no other, it was a promise for only one man (Isaiah 42).

Fact, "the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness righteousness and truth" (Ephesians 5:9) and one who is born of God having His seed remain in him is righteous not capable of sin (1 John 3).

Fact, 1 Chronicles 17 tells us that First you have a son of David and THEN YHVH our God becomes a Father unto him and promises to settle him into His House and give him an eternal throne.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit....14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil...30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth....33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Did YHVH our God's WORD not become true in the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth upon him being immersed in water and then receiving God's Spirit where he was then sent being for a light??

How can anyone be so blind to not see that being born of God, being born of the Spirit of God is not the exact same thing as having God's Spirit come to dwell in and remain in you?

We are given that through the Spirit that came to dwell in Jesus he was then sent to speak God's WORD and do God's WORKS and the people beheld the glory of him who was filled with grace and truth. How is it truly not obvious that Jesus being called God's only begotten Son is because of the fact he was the only mortal to have received God's Spirit without measure whereby he was filled with the glory of God's truth for him to then be sent out to speak it?

Jesus is the Son of Man to have been promised to be exalted to God's right hand, he is the Son of Man to whom God promised to settle into His House. How does a man according to Jesus enter into God's kingdom, he must be born of the Spirit right?

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and HAVING RECEIVED OF THE FATHER THE PROMISE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make* thy foes thy footstool.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Further facts,
We are joint heirs with Christ being heirs of God.
We are to be made in the image of the Son.
Those that are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.
A man must be born of water and of the Spirit to enter into God's kingdom.
We are to be baptized with the baptism Jesus received and we are to drink of the cup that Jesus drinks of.
We have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The moment the Spirit descended and remained in Jesus at the river Jordan God declared, "this is my beloved Son". The moment Jesus was resurrected he received the Promised Spirit and God declared "this day have I begotten you" which was God's word promised unto a son of David made true.

Jesus as a mortal man was God's only begotten Son, he was the only man to whom God called to righteousness, the only mortal man to have been begotten of God's Spirit without measure. This Son died on the cross, but upon his resurrection he was begotten of God's Spirit again and he was given a body that could not die and here he became a firstborn of many brethren.

Passages that people claim speak of Jesus as pre-existing are often falsely being misinterpreted simply because a clear and simple truth is not applied. God declared the END FROM THE BEGINNING and in that WORD was one man who would execute all His will and bring forth righteousness (Isaiah 46). Before Abraham even existed God's word was for Jesus to be that which Jesus declared of himself, "I AM the resurrection, and the life". I AM the light of the world".

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Jesus is still a man and he is returning in our Father's glory, that glory is that which makes him a Son of God (God's Spirit dwelling in him leading him in all of God's ways), that glory is also him sitting on his father David's throne putting all enemies under foot and making his followers into Sons of God, making them as he is, giving them of the One Spirit to drink of.

The context of Colossians 1 is all about Jesus after he shed his blood and rose from the dead, it's about God's kingdom which is in the new earth. Jesus is being referred to as a firstborn of only one creation in Colossians, the Eternal Creation. God made "all things by (REASON OF HIM) and for him, without him nothing would have been made that was made".

It is obvious that "by" is not "by means of" but rather "by reason of" because to say it is by "means" of is to then make YHVH our Heavenly Father into a liar and render the bible unreliable.

[onewithhim]

Isaiah 44:24- This is what Jehovah has said, your repurchaser and the former of you from the belly. I Jehovah am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the Earth. Who was with me?

Wait one minute, in your N.W.T., you admit that the Son of God created all (other) things, he being created by the Father. Now you say it was Jehovah that stretched out the heavens and laid the earth. Make up your mind! If Jesus created all other things, then he is Jehovah who stretched out the heavens and laid out the earth.

Myself= the only power source and designer. How do we know this-Because Jesus was involved as well-How?
Gen 1:26--Let US make man in our image-US = more than 1 being--Gen 1:27-HE( 1 being) created--Prov 8:27-28- HE( 1being) created.
So what does US mean then?= Us = Jehovah and his master worker( Prov 8:30)= the one beside God during creation, the one whom God grew especially fond of= his son.
Jesus= The firstborn of all creation--All creation occurred at the beginning--PROOF=Prov 8:22 Possessed me as the beginning of your way( creating). The Hebrew word used for possessed means-created. Thus created direct, first and last, all other things created-THROUGH( John 1:3, Col 1:160) Through = another did the creating).= Jehovah.-)--- things created through Gods master worker. The word only begotten son means monogenes=unique=created direct first and last.
Most religions teach untruth on this matter, but i have presented bible facts on it.
Do you believe the evidence?

You need to get a new Greek to English Lexicon and look up the word "first-born" and see how it is applied to Jesus, compared to how it is applied to men. While you're at it, look up "only begotten" concerning Jesus. Try Thayer's Greek to English dictionary; it will give you the truth, not the nonsense the Watchtower Greek to English shovels out.

monogenes single of its kind, only

Fact, Jesus was the only mortal man to have God's Spirit come to dwell in him without measure (John 3).

Fact, YHVH''s WORD by the prophet Isaiah was that YHVH would place His Spirit within a Son of Man. This man would be called to righteousness and be for a light to both Jews and Gentiles. This man filled with the Spirit would be SENT out to speak God's word of truth, do God's works and deliver captives. Such was all a glory that YHVH promised to give to no other, it was a promise for only one man (Isaiah 42).

Fact, "the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness righteousness and truth" (Ephesians 5:9) and one who is born of God having His seed remain in him is righteous not capable of sin (1 John 3).

Fact, 1 Chronicles 17 tells us that First you have a son of David and THEN YHVH our God becomes a Father unto him and promises to settle him into His House and give him an eternal throne.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit....14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil...30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth....33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Did YHVH our God's WORD not become true in the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth upon him being immersed in water and then receiving God's Spirit where he was then sent being for a light??

How can anyone be so blind to not see that being born of God, being born of the Spirit of God is not the exact same thing as having God's Spirit come to dwell in and remain in you?

We are given that through the Spirit that came to dwell in Jesus he was then sent to speak God's WORD and do God's WORKS and the people beheld the glory of him who was filled with grace and truth. How is it truly not obvious that Jesus being called God's only begotten Son is because of the fact he was the only mortal to have received God's Spirit without measure whereby he was filled with the glory of God's truth for him to then be sent out to speak it?

Jesus is the Son of Man to have been promised to be exalted to God's right hand, he is the Son of Man to whom God promised to settle into His House. How does a man according to Jesus enter into God's kingdom, he must be born of the Spirit right?

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and HAVING RECEIVED OF THE FATHER THE PROMISE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make* thy foes thy footstool.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Further facts,
We are joint heirs with Christ being heirs of God.
We are to be made in the image of the Son.
Those that are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.
A man must be born of water and of the Spirit to enter into God's kingdom.
We are to be baptized with the baptism Jesus received and we are to drink of the cup that Jesus drinks of.
We have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The moment the Spirit descended and remained in Jesus at the river Jordan God declared, "this is my beloved Son". The moment Jesus was resurrected he received the Promised Spirit and God declared "this day have I begotten you" which was God's word promised unto a son of David made true.

Jesus as a mortal man was God's only begotten Son, he was the only man to whom God called to righteousness, the only mortal man to have been begotten of God's Spirit without measure. This Son died on the cross, but upon his resurrection he was begotten of God's Spirit again and he was given a body that could not die and here he became a firstborn of many brethren.

Passages that people claim speak of Jesus as pre-existing are often falsely being misinterpreted simply because a clear and simple truth is not applied. God declared the END FROM THE BEGINNING and in that WORD was one man who would execute all His will and bring forth righteousness (Isaiah 46). Before Abraham even existed God's word was for Jesus to be that which Jesus declared of himself, "I AM the resurrection, and the life". I AM the light of the world".

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Jesus is still a man and he is returning in our Father's glory, that glory is that which makes him a Son of God (God's Spirit dwelling in him leading him in all of God's ways), that glory is also him sitting on his father David's throne putting all enemies under foot and making his followers into Sons of God, making them as he is, giving them of the One Spirit to drink of.

The context of Colossians 1 is all about Jesus after he shed his blood and rose from the dead, it's about God's kingdom which is in the new earth. Jesus is being referred to as a firstborn of only one creation in Colossians, the Eternal Creation. God made "all things by (REASON OF HIM) and for him, without him nothing would have been made that was made".

It is obvious that "by" is not "by means of" but rather "by reason of" because to say it is by "means" of is to then make YHVH our Heavenly Father into a liar and render the bible unreliable.

Not so. "By reason of" doesn't make sense. Jehovah created everything by means of His Son, Jesus. That doesn't make the Bible "unreadable!" You have changed the meaning of the verse. Various versions say something different than "by reason of him." The NAB says in verse 16b: "All things were created through him and for him." The ASV says: "All things have been created through him, and unto him." So, clearly, all things were created by Jehovah's power through Jesus, His Son. A footnote in the New American Bible says: "Christ is preeminent and supreme as God's agent in the creation of all things ." Notice that the word "agent" is used to describe Christ in relation to Jehovah God. What is an "agent"? The Illustrated Oxford Dictionary defines it as "a person who acts for another." Therefore, Christ is carrying out the creation for his Father, at his Father's behest. In other words, the creation happened by means of Christ Jesus who acted as his Father's agent.

Your "obvious" "by reason of" doesn't add up.

[FruitoftheSpirit]

Isaiah 44:24- This is what Jehovah has said, your repurchaser and the former of you from the belly. I Jehovah am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the Earth. Who was with me?

Wait one minute, in your N.W.T., you admit that the Son of God created all (other) things, he being created by the Father. Now you say it was Jehovah that stretched out the heavens and laid the earth. Make up your mind! If Jesus created all other things, then he is Jehovah who stretched out the heavens and laid out the earth.

Myself= the only power source and designer. How do we know this-Because Jesus was involved as well-How?
Gen 1:26--Let US make man in our image-US = more than 1 being--Gen 1:27-HE( 1 being) created--Prov 8:27-28- HE( 1being) created.
So what does US mean then?= Us = Jehovah and his master worker( Prov 8:30)= the one beside God during creation, the one whom God grew especially fond of= his son.
Jesus= The firstborn of all creation--All creation occurred at the beginning--PROOF=Prov 8:22 Possessed me as the beginning of your way( creating). The Hebrew word used for possessed means-created. Thus created direct, first and last, all other things created-THROUGH( John 1:3, Col 1:160) Through = another did the creating).= Jehovah.-)--- things created through Gods master worker. The word only begotten son means monogenes=unique=created direct first and last.
Most religions teach untruth on this matter, but i have presented bible facts on it.
Do you believe the evidence?

You need to get a new Greek to English Lexicon and look up the word "first-born" and see how it is applied to Jesus, compared to how it is applied to men. While you're at it, look up "only begotten" concerning Jesus. Try Thayer's Greek to English dictionary; it will give you the truth, not the nonsense the Watchtower Greek to English shovels out.

monogenes single of its kind, only

Fact, Jesus was the only mortal man to have God's Spirit come to dwell in him without measure (John 3).

Fact, YHVH''s WORD by the prophet Isaiah was that YHVH would place His Spirit within a Son of Man. This man would be called to righteousness and be for a light to both Jews and Gentiles. This man filled with the Spirit would be SENT out to speak God's word of truth, do God's works and deliver captives. Such was all a glory that YHVH promised to give to no other, it was a promise for only one man (Isaiah 42).

Fact, "the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness righteousness and truth" (Ephesians 5:9) and one who is born of God having His seed remain in him is righteous not capable of sin (1 John 3).

Fact, 1 Chronicles 17 tells us that First you have a son of David and THEN YHVH our God becomes a Father unto him and promises to settle him into His House and give him an eternal throne.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit....14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil...30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth....33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Did YHVH our God's WORD not become true in the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth upon him being immersed in water and then receiving God's Spirit where he was then sent being for a light??

How can anyone be so blind to not see that being born of God, being born of the Spirit of God is not the exact same thing as having God's Spirit come to dwell in and remain in you?

We are given that through the Spirit that came to dwell in Jesus he was then sent to speak God's WORD and do God's WORKS and the people beheld the glory of him who was filled with grace and truth. How is it truly not obvious that Jesus being called God's only begotten Son is because of the fact he was the only mortal to have received God's Spirit without measure whereby he was filled with the glory of God's truth for him to then be sent out to speak it?

Jesus is the Son of Man to have been promised to be exalted to God's right hand, he is the Son of Man to whom God promised to settle into His House. How does a man according to Jesus enter into God's kingdom, he must be born of the Spirit right?

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and HAVING RECEIVED OF THE FATHER THE PROMISE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make* thy foes thy footstool.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Further facts,
We are joint heirs with Christ being heirs of God.
We are to be made in the image of the Son.
Those that are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.
A man must be born of water and of the Spirit to enter into God's kingdom.
We are to be baptized with the baptism Jesus received and we are to drink of the cup that Jesus drinks of.
We have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The moment the Spirit descended and remained in Jesus at the river Jordan God declared, "this is my beloved Son". The moment Jesus was resurrected he received the Promised Spirit and God declared "this day have I begotten you" which was God's word promised unto a son of David made true.

Jesus as a mortal man was God's only begotten Son, he was the only man to whom God called to righteousness, the only mortal man to have been begotten of God's Spirit without measure. This Son died on the cross, but upon his resurrection he was begotten of God's Spirit again and he was given a body that could not die and here he became a firstborn of many brethren.

Passages that people claim speak of Jesus as pre-existing are often falsely being misinterpreted simply because a clear and simple truth is not applied. God declared the END FROM THE BEGINNING and in that WORD was one man who would execute all His will and bring forth righteousness (Isaiah 46). Before Abraham even existed God's word was for Jesus to be that which Jesus declared of himself, "I AM the resurrection, and the life". I AM the light of the world".

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Jesus is still a man and he is returning in our Father's glory, that glory is that which makes him a Son of God (God's Spirit dwelling in him leading him in all of God's ways), that glory is also him sitting on his father David's throne putting all enemies under foot and making his followers into Sons of God, making them as he is, giving them of the One Spirit to drink of.

The context of Colossians 1 is all about Jesus after he shed his blood and rose from the dead, it's about God's kingdom which is in the new earth. Jesus is being referred to as a firstborn of only one creation in Colossians, the Eternal Creation. God made "all things by (REASON OF HIM) and for him, without him nothing would have been made that was made".

It is obvious that "by" is not "by means of" but rather "by reason of" because to say it is by "means" of is to then make YHVH our Heavenly Father into a liar and render the bible unreliable.

Not so. "By reason of" doesn't make sense. Jehovah created everything by means of His Son, Jesus. That doesn't make the Bible "unreadable!" You have changed the meaning of the verse. Various versions say something different than "by reason of him." The NAB says in verse 16b: "All things were created through him and for him." The ASV says: "All things have been created through him, and unto him." So, clearly, all things were created by Jehovah's power through Jesus, His Son. A footnote in the New American Bible says: "Christ is preeminent and supreme as God's agent in the creation of all things ." Notice that the word "agent" is used to describe Christ in relation to Jehovah God. What is an "agent"? The Illustrated Oxford Dictionary defines it as "a person who acts for another." Therefore, Christ is carrying out the creation for his Father, at his Father's behest. In other words, the creation happened by means of Christ Jesus who acted as his Father's agent.

Your "obvious" "by reason of" doesn't add up.

Thanks for your reply!

Truth is in the sum of all scripture where there can be no contradictions.

Old Testament prophecy declared,

YHVH declared the End from the Beginning and in His WORD from the beginning was YHVH calling a man to execute YHVH's will which is to bring forth righteousness (Isaiah 46). Here we have a man existing in the WORD of YHVH from the beginning, not a man pre-existing in the beginning as another kind of being.


YHVH declared that He would put His Spirit upon a man, call this man to righteousness where he would be for a light executing YHVH's will (speak YHVH's words and do YHVH's works). Further we are told that this was a glory YHVH set apart for this man ONLY. FURTHER it is YHVH who created heaven and earth and the people upon it (Isaiah 42). This man, of whom was in YHVH's WORD from the beginning, is of the people to whom YHVH created, so to turn and say, uh nope the man pre-existed in another form and was actually our creator, I see as nothing more but a direct lie against CLEAR scripture.

Isaiah 44: 24 Thus saith LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein

VERY CLEAR, He who created all things did so ALONE and He also confirms the word of His servant. "He" is YHVH and the man anointed of the Spirit, Jesus of Nazareth, is the "servant". To turn and say the servant pre-existed and he actually is our creator, once again I see as a direct lie against clear scripture.

Further, YHVH made earth for it to be inhabited and filled with the knowledge of Him and filled with righteousness. His WORD is for the Son of Man to return in His glory where he will sit on his father David's throne and rule as a king of kings in righteousness through YHVH's Spirit that lives in him (meaning it has been begotten in him and it remains in him for eternity). In YHVH's plan He declared from the beginning, we clearly see that YHVH had created all things BY REASON of and FOR this Son of Man.

Also, I Chronicles 17 tells us that FIRST you have a son of David and THEN YHVH becomes a Father to Him and He promises to settle him into His House and give him an eternal throne. To say that a Son of God became a son of David I also see as a direct lie against clear scripture.

This is what I see, people have changed the image of the Son and have swept under the rug the significance to Jesus having received the Spirit of YHVH not by measure.

Seems rather clear that people flat out deny that YHVH did in fact call Jesus of Nazareth to righteousness as YHVH's word had prophesied unto a man. Jesus as the only mortal man to have YHVH's Spirit come to live in him without measure is exactly why he was called God's only begotten Son and it is this Son that God then sent out into the world. Further, this Son died but he was resurrected where upon his resurrection guess what happened? This man received the Promised Spirit and we are also told that upon his resurrection what was written in Psalms was fulfilled, "this day have I begotten thee".

[placebofactor]

[Replying to Capbook in post #4]


I asked in bing search--Which is correct for the Hebrew word at Prov 8:22, possessed or produced--Possessed( created) came up just like i show in this post.

Why used Bing, is it more authoritative than the word of God?
Yes, create is one of the definition of "possessed" but rarely used by word for word Bible translations.

Pro 8:22 “יהוה possessed me, The beginning of His way, As the first of His works of old.

When it comes to the things concerning Jesus Christ, the Son of God, you had better rely on the Holy Spirit, not Bing or AI for your information. The Father and his Son sent us the Holy Spirit, not AI. Another problem is your dishonest post concerning the word "possessed." You only give part of the story, the half that has nothing to do with the truth concerning Jesus.

Genesis 14:19, "Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:"

Deuteronomy 32:6, "O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that has brought (possessed) thee?

Quote, from Gesenius' Hebrew Chaldee Lexicon: QUOTE: "There does not appear to be any sufficient ground for ascribing the sense of to create to this verb; in all the passages cited for that sense, to possess appears to be the true meaning.

I also possess an 1837 Hebrew to English Dictionary. It agrees with GESENIUS." 1837 was a time when the Hebrew language was considered a dead language, and only books like this, or some Rabbis in Russia, could speak or read Hebrew. Ancient Hebrew is not like modern-day Hebrew. So, if a person wants to debate intelligently, one needs to use the proper resources for their information, and I don't mean the Watchtower archives where mold and rust have entered.

[servant1]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #58]


You can deny Jesus was created=darkness=lose. Its the 100% real reason the Father is his God.

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #53]



Yes and the Hebrew word translated possessed means created.