Is Belief in Jesus a Choice?

[bluegreenearth]

Do people make the choice to believe in the Biblical claims about Jesus?

[1213]

Do people make the choice to believe in the Biblical claims about Jesus?

I think everything humans do, is a choice. That includes also what people choose to believe.

[bluegreenearth]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

Please describe the process that demonstrates how people who begin with a lack of belief in the Biblical claims about Jesus then choose to believe. Do they just decide to be convinced after not having been convinced? How does that work?

[POI]

Do people make the choice to believe in the Biblical claims about Jesus?

Not a free choice. Also see (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42958) for reference.

[1213]

Please describe the process that demonstrates how people who begin with a lack of belief in the Biblical claims about Jesus then choose to believe. Do they just decide to be convinced after not having been convinced? How does that work?

Mind can change, for example when one understand the matter better, if he gets argument that he chooses to think is convincing enough. But, often it seems to be matter of what person likes. In many cases it seems to be very arbitrary. For example person may choose to believe the evolution theory, because some people says it happened, even when there is no real proof for it. But at the same time chooses not to believe the Bible, because he likes more the Godless world view.

[bluegreenearth]

Mind can change, for example when one understand the matter better, if he gets argument that he chooses to think is convincing enough.

When one understands the matter better and gets the argument, how does the individual then choose to be convinced? Please demonstrate exactly where the choice occurs in the process of becoming convinced.

But, often it seems to be matter of what person likes.

Could someone who likes the idea of Jesus resurrecting simply choose to believe that claim is true despite being unconvinced by the supporting arguments and evidence?

In many cases it seems to be very arbitrary. For example person may choose to believe the evolution theory, because some people says it happened, even when there is no real proof for it. But at the same time chooses not to believe the Bible, because he likes more the Godless world view.

If the person in your example declared it was sufficiently convincing for him to believe the Theory of Evolution merely because other people said it happened, then how was his resulting belief a choice when the individual claimed to have felt compelled by the testimony of other people?

Could a person who likes the Christian world view find the arguments and evidence for a Godless world view to be more convincing but still choose to genuinely believe the Bible anyway?

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to bluegreenearth in post #6]

Yes, people do make choices to believe in Jesus, @bluegreenearth, but then they discover that God has worked in their hearts to enable them to believe by giving them the new birth, give them the ability to repent of their former way of life, and follow Jesus as the only way to the Father's approval through his death and resurrection. As a result, their choice is 100% to God's credit, not theirs.

Eph 2:1  And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 
Eph 2:2  in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 
Eph 2:3  among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 
Eph 2:4  But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 
Eph 2:5  even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 
Eph 2:6  and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 
Eph 2:7  so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 
Eph 2:8  For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 
Eph 2:9  not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 
Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. 

[bluegreenearth]

[Replying to bluegreenearth in post #6]

Yes, people do make choices to believe in Jesus, @bluegreenearth, but then they discover that God has worked in their hearts to enable them to believe by giving them the new birth, give them the ability to repent of their former way of life, and follow Jesus as the only way to the Father's approval through his death and resurrection. As a result, their choice is 100% to God's credit, not theirs.

Are you asserting that they were compelled to accept the Biblical claims about Jesus as a consequence of their minds' being directly manipulated by the god?

[1213]

...If the person in your example declared it was sufficiently convincing for him to believe the Theory of Evolution merely because other people said it happened, then how was his resulting belief a choice when the individual claimed to have felt compelled by the testimony of other people?

Could a person who likes the Christian world view find the arguments and evidence for a Godless world view to be more convincing but still choose to genuinely believe the Bible anyway?

I think belief is always based on something that a person thinks is convincing. And the choice that leads to belief is in what person chooses to accept as convincing evidence. A person that doesn't want to believe, thinks nothing is convincing enough. And then he can claim that it was just about not finding enough convincing evidence, when it was actually about not wanting to believe and therefore choosing to say nothing is enough. A person who wants to believe, thinks even small evidence is enough.

So, I don't think person would choose to believe something that he thinks is not convincing. But person can choose what is convincing for him and so also what he believes. For example it seems to me that for atheists, nothing is convincing them, if it supports Christianity. Similarly, a person who has chosen Christianity, can think nothing is convincing enough for to reject Christianity. It is always possible to find some reason to not be convinced by something. That depends on what person wants to believe, which is why I think belief or non belief is always a choice.

But, in the case of Christianity, I think it is more complex than just believing God is real. For example to me, it is about the teachings of Jesus. I think they are good, which is why I want to live by them, regardless of did things go as told in the Bible. I think it is also the only hope for good end of the story, which is why I want to believe it. But, believing that God is real and that in the end good, love and truth wins, in my opinion is not as important as understanding what is good and right and wanting to live accordingly.

[bluegreenearth]

I think belief is always based on something that a person thinks is convincing. And the choice that leads to belief is in what person chooses to accept as convincing evidence. A person that doesn't want to believe, thinks nothing is convincing enough. And then he can claim that it was just about not finding enough convincing evidence, when it was actually about not wanting to believe and therefore choosing to say nothing is enough. A person who wants to believe, thinks even small evidence is enough.

So, I don't think person would choose to believe something that he thinks is not convincing. But person can choose what is convincing for him and so also what he believes. For example it seems to me that for atheists, nothing is convincing them, if it supports Christianity. Similarly, a person who has chosen Christianity, can think nothing is convincing enough for to reject Christianity. It is always possible to find some reason to not be convinced by something. That depends on what person wants to believe, which is why I think belief or non belief is always a choice.

But, in the case of Christianity, I think it is more complex than just believing God is real. For example to me, it is about the teachings of Jesus. I think they are good, which is why I want to live by them, regardless of did things go as told in the Bible. I think it is also the only hope for good end of the story, which is why I want to believe it. But, believing that God is real and that in the end good, love and truth wins, in my opinion is not as important as understanding what is good and right and wanting to live accordingly.

How do people who desire for a claim to be true necessarily choose to be convinced by supporting evidence that they are otherwise compelled by intellectual honesty to justifiably dismiss? Wouldn't any experience of being unconvinced by the supporting evidence for a claim that I want to be true demonstrate my inability to choose otherwise?

Likewise, how do people who desire for a claim to be false necessarily choose to be unconvinced by supporting evidence that they are otherwise compelled by intellectual honesty to justifiably accept? Again, wouldn't any experience of being convinced by the supporting evidence for a claim that I want to be false demonstrate my inability to choose otherwise?

How does someone who wants to believe the Biblical claims about Jesus are true simply choose to accept the supporting evidence as convincing when the quality of that evidence is not honestly perceived by the individual to be intellectually persuasive?