Did God create the devil?

[4gold]

The Bible makes it clear that the earth, the universe, all matter, and all energy was created by God. Where I am unclear is to whether God created the devil.

Does anyone have any Bible verses that indicates whether God created the devil or not?

If He did create the devil, why not eliminate the opportunity for sin, by eliminating the devil?

If He did not, then who did and is that force more powerful than God?

[Goat]

The Bible makes it clear that the earth, the universe, all matter, and all energy was created by God. Where I am unclear is to whether God created the devil.

Does anyone have any Bible verses that indicates whether God created the devil or not?

If He did create the devil, why not eliminate the opportunity for sin, by eliminating the devil?

If He did not, then who did and is that force more powerful than God?

Well, the Jewish concept is that Satan is merely doing God's bidding in providing bad choices.

You can't learn to CHOOSE GOOD, unless you have the opportunity to choose bad.

As for making the universe, genesis had God's spirit moving over the water (Chaos) to form the earth (order) out of preexisting materials.

[4gold]

The Bible makes it clear that the earth, the universe, all matter, and all energy was created by God. Where I am unclear is to whether God created the devil.

Does anyone have any Bible verses that indicates whether God created the devil or not?

If He did create the devil, why not eliminate the opportunity for sin, by eliminating the devil?

If He did not, then who did and is that force more powerful than God?

Well, the Jewish concept is that Satan is merely doing God's bidding in providing bad choices.

You can't learn to CHOOSE GOOD, unless you have the opportunity to choose bad.

As for making the universe, genesis had God's spirit moving over the water (Chaos) to form the earth (order) out of preexisting materials.

In my religion (Calvinist), we believe you cannot choose God, but rather God chooses you.

Second, that still doesn't answer my question. Who created Satan?

[Confused]

The Bible makes it clear that the earth, the universe, all matter, and all energy was created by God. Where I am unclear is to whether God created the devil.

Does anyone have any Bible verses that indicates whether God created the devil or not?

If He did create the devil, why not eliminate the opportunity for sin, by eliminating the devil?

If He did not, then who did and is that force more powerful than God?

Hmm, current belief is that satan is the equivalent of the fallen angel Lucifer, right?
Great, now who created the angels?
If satan is indeed the "serpent", the "devil", the fallen angel "Lucifer", etc... and God did indeed create the angels, then God created a species greater than Himself since one would have to be greater than God to not only defy Him, but to become so much a threat that He had to throw the angel out of heaven, right? But if He was great enough to cast him out of heaven, then wouldn't He be more powerful than satan? Wouldn't He be able to stop the influence before it tainted His creation? Unless angels are afforded the same privileges as mankind in that they are given free will, then by stopping satan, God would have prevented the downfall of His creation and not violated our concept of His interference being a violation of free will.

But if God created the angels, and afforded them free will, then I guess mankind isn't unique to Him like we currently assume. Are we not the only creatures that are afforded free will? Our choice to accept or reject Him is what is suppose to make us such a superior form of life. If angels can do this, and live in heaven, next to God, helping Him run messages between us and Him, etc... then why would we be His favored creation? Why would He need our love, our devotion, our faith in Him if He already has a creation that resides with Him that can fulfill this need?

Ok, now I have confused myself.

If God created everything, then God would have had to have created angels, right? Even the epitome of evil: Lucifer, whom we equate with satan.

[4gold]

If God created everything, then God would have had to have created angels, right? Even the epitome of evil: Lucifer, whom we equate with satan.

Is it possible that both the devil and God are uncaused causes?

[Beto]

If God created everything, then God would have had to have created angels, right? Even the epitome of evil: Lucifer, whom we equate with satan.

Is it possible that both the devil and God are uncaused causes?

Two gods?

[Confused]

If God created everything, then God would have had to have created angels, right? Even the epitome of evil: Lucifer, whom we equate with satan.

Is it possible that both the devil and God are uncaused causes?

Perhaps unknown causes in terms of philosophical thinking. But in logic, no. Unless we give everything the exclusionary exemption from science, then by stating "the devil and God" or "the devil" or "God" had no cause, we create a special plea.

Simply because we don't know somethings cause doesn't mean it didn't have a cause. Current accepted reasoning is the action=reaction, cause=result, etc... For the existence of something to occur, we must have an action. You can have no reaction without an action, you can have no result without a cause. The causation of much of scripture cannot be evaluated in terms of our understanding. The reason being is that most religious doctrines don't really answer any fundamental question you ask of them. The circular reasoning gets abused and we get tongue tied without ever really answering the fundamental question. If we say: "The devil and God had no causation", then did we answer your question "Did God create the devil"? Or did we just create more questions than the answer provides?

[4gold]

Two gods?

Only if you define god as the first cause.

[Confused]

Two gods?

Only if you define god as the first cause.

Ok, have you been talking to Achilles12604 to much????? LOL, this is a debate that he has had ongoing for months, perhaps years.

[4gold]

Simply because we don't know somethings cause doesn't mean it didn't have a cause. Current accepted reasoning is the action=reaction, cause=result, etc... For the existence of something to occur, we must have an action. You can have no reaction without an action, you can have no result without a cause.

But this line of logic is only true within time and space, correct? It does not necessarily apply outside of time and space, I believe.