How do I determine what God requires of me?

[McCulloch]

I have posted what I think is the single most important issue to debate.

To me, the second most important issue is this. If there is a God, how do I determine what God requires of me? If your answer involves something that is from human agency, a book or an organization, then the question remains, "How do I know that the book's authors or the organization's leaders authoritatively speak for God?"

How do I determine what God requires of me?

[alexiarose]

Let me ask you this, you love your wife, right? What method do you use to validate this feeling? How can you explain it to me so it isn't (moms favorite word here ) nonsensical?

So God is a feeling; an emotion?

The experience of God is a feeling. I think I already explained what I thought God was to you in another thread.

Sometimes, seeing is believing. Sometimes feeling it believing. Sometimes hearing is believing. The evil one could be your doubt and skepticism.

Skepticism is guarding against falsehoods by testing every claim. How can that be evil?

I use the term evil very loosely these days. Let me use love as an example again. If you don't open your heart to the possibility of experiencing it, will you ever experience it? Or will it continue to be a roadblock? If you are always looking for ulterior motives, will you ever really learn to trust? Being skeptical isn't a bad thing. But adding it to "guarding against falsehoods" doesn't exactly leave you open enough to experience love or God. It is like saying guilty until proven innocent.

Yes, I realize I contradict myself from my earlier post about mom, but I know what is in moms heart. I don't know what is in yours except that your funny.

Contradict away, you're young. But don't expect us to believe that your beliefs are deep seated if you contradict yourself.

I explained my contradiction quite adequately IMO. I don't know what is in your heart.

Oh, and it is you're funny.

Darn grammar police, LOL.

Even His book is vague and contradictory.

So then either God is a poor communicator or it is not His Book.

False dilemma? Couldn't it be more like man is reading to much into it, studying it beyond what it was meant to mean?

Very good! You're learning that evil skepticism; looking for those logical fallacies. Before long we'll have you on the dark side.

I am working my way through Furrowed Brows booklist now. LOL. What a mixed up nightmare.

You claim that God's book is vague and contradictory. Why would that be? What possible reason would a perfect loving god have to publish a vague and contradictory book?

I can only give possibilities. IMHO, God didn't write the book. Man did. However, I have to say that when you read it following what is in your heart, the contradictions really become pointless. I don't think God intended for it to be so complicated. I think man probably did that while each of them tried to word what they thought some of the things Christ said meant. But why should God fix it? Tell me, if you had just met your wife, would you believer her if she had said she loved you right off? Or did you two have to work at a relationship to find the love and then continue to work at it to make the love last? I see no difference. You have to find the love amongst all the various additions and then work at making it last.

[McCulloch]

I use the term evil very loosely these days.

Forgive me for pointing it out, but you use most term rather loosely. It makes it difficult to debate.

Being skeptical isn't a bad thing. But adding it to "guarding against falsehoods" doesn't exactly leave you open enough to experience love or God. It is like saying guilty until proven innocent.

So your answer is to not be skeptical, even though it is a good thing? I know about love, I've been experiencing it with a person who is real and alive. God, on the other hand, cannot be distinguished from an imaginary being.

Even His book is vague and contradictory.

So then either God is a poor communicator or it is not His Book.

False dilemma? Couldn't it be more like man is reading to much into it, studying it beyond what it was meant to mean?

Very good! You're learning that evil skepticism; looking for those logical fallacies. Before long we'll have you on the dark side.

You claim that God's book is vague and contradictory. Why would that be? What possible reason would a perfect loving god have to publish a vague and contradictory book?

I can only give possibilities. IMHO, God didn't write the book. Man did.

Please note that you have now selected the second choice of the false dilemma. Maybe you could admit that perhaps it was not such a false dilemma. Either that or provide a couple more valid options.

However, I have to say that when you read it following what is in your heart, the contradictions really become pointless.

In your search for spiritual truth, you can find it by reading a human book full of lies, so long as you ignore the contradictions and follow your heart. Thanks, I'll try that.

I don't think God intended for it to be so complicated.

Like what Mark Twain said, "It’s not the parts of the Bible I don’t understand that bother me; it’s the parts I do understand."

I think man probably did that while each of them tried to word what they thought some of the things Christ said meant. But why should God fix it? Tell me, if you had just met your wife, would you believer her if she had said she loved you right off? Or did you two have to work at a relationship to find the love and then continue to work at it to make the love last? I see no difference. You have to find the love amongst all the various additions and then work at making it last.

We were engaged six weeks after we met. Our wedding was six weeks after that. That was in 1982 and we're still in love. I keep hearing about people who have to work at a relationship to find the love and work at it to make the love last. It is all a bunch of nonsense to me. We decided that we loved each other and that was that.

[undeterred]

Either God is blind or He just doesn't want me. Either way, I have failed.

How is it your failing if God is blind? If God is blind then it's certainly not your fault. One has to wonder if it's even God's fault, in that case.

And if you have been as open and honest as possible in your search for him, how is it your failing if God has "rejected" you?

Either what you're saying makes absolutely no sense, or I've misunderstood you, and you might be able to put it in a way I can understand?

[alexiarose]

I use the term evil very loosely these days.

Forgive me for pointing it out, but you use most term rather loosely. It makes it difficult to debate.

Many terms are very subjective and what I see as evil may not be the same as you. How is it any different than my seeing you hash out terms with any other debater?

Being skeptical isn't a bad thing. But adding it to "guarding against falsehoods" doesn't exactly leave you open enough to experience love or God. It is like saying guilty until proven innocent.

So your answer is to not be skeptical, even though it is a good thing? I know about love, I've been experiencing it with a person who is real and alive. God, on the other hand, cannot be distinguished from an imaginary being.

My answer is to give Him a chance.

Even His book is vague and contradictory.

So then either God is a poor communicator or it is not His Book.

False dilemma? Couldn't it be more like man is reading to much into it, studying it beyond what it was meant to mean?

Very good! You're learning that evil skepticism; looking for those logical fallacies. Before long we'll have you on the dark side.

You claim that God's book is vague and contradictory. Why would that be? What possible reason would a perfect loving god have to publish a vague and contradictory book?

I can only give possibilities. IMHO, God didn't write the book. Man did.

Please note that you have now selected the second choice of the false dilemma. Maybe you could admit that perhaps it was not such a false dilemma. Either that or provide a couple more valid options.

Try taking it into the entire context rather than breaking it up to suit your purpose. I never claimed it wasn't His book. Only that He didn't write it. It is a testimony of the accounts of those who witnessed His works. Because of this, it leads the rest ot my comment you opted to butcher.

However, I have to say that when you read it following what is in your heart, the contradictions really become pointless.

In your search for spiritual truth, you can find it by reading a human book full of lies, so long as you ignore the contradictions and follow your heart. Thanks, I'll try that.

Let me know how it works for you.

I don't think God intended for it to be so complicated.

Like what Mark Twain said, "It’s not the parts of the Bible I don’t understand that bother me; it’s the parts I do understand."

Then maybe he should spend a bit more time trying to understand the parts he doesn't.

I think man probably did that while each of them tried to word what they thought some of the things Christ said meant. But why should God fix it? Tell me, if you had just met your wife, would you believer her if she had said she loved you right off? Or did you two have to work at a relationship to find the love and then continue to work at it to make the love last? I see no difference. You have to find the love amongst all the various additions and then work at making it last.

We were engaged six weeks after we met. Our wedding was six weeks after that. That was in 1982 and we're still in love. I keep hearing about people who have to work at a relationship to find the love and work at it to make the love last. It is all a bunch of nonsense to me. We decided that we loved each other and that was that.

Point taken.

[OpenedUp]

Let me ask you this, you love your wife, right? What method do you use to validate this feeling? How can you explain it to me so it isn't (moms favorite word here ) nonsensical?

So God is a feeling; an emotion?

The experience of God is a feeling. I think I already explained what I thought God was to you in another thread.

They have recreated what subjects called a feeling "of not being alone" also called a "religious experience" by some, in experiments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... rain.shtml

A little sketchy, i'm sure, but an interesting read.

[twobitsmedia]

The experience of God is a feeling.

Maybe for you subjectively, but I do not think this is an across the board rule or experience or phenomenon.

Couldn't it be more like man is reading to much into it, studying it beyond what it was meant to mean?

I would agree with this. And I would add that I think churches themselves add volumes and volumes of doctrines to the mix (trinities, et al) and create more confusion.

[twobitsmedia]

They have recreated what subjects called a feeling "of not being alone" also called a "religious experience" by some, in experiments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... rain.shtml

A little sketchy, i'm sure, but an interesting read.

LOL. That's too funny. Have you had your brain scanned for Jesus today?

[Confused]

Either God is blind or He just doesn't want me. Either way, I have failed.

How is it your failing if God is blind? If God is blind then it's certainly not your fault. One has to wonder if it's even God's fault, in that case.

And if you have been as open and honest as possible in your search for him, how is it your failing if God has "rejected" you?

Either what you're saying makes absolutely no sense, or I've misunderstood you, and you might be able to put it in a way I can understand?

I failed in my search. That is all it meant. If God doesn't exist, the point is moot isn't it?

[OpenedUp]

They have recreated what subjects called a feeling "of not being alone" also called a "religious experience" by some, in experiments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... rain.shtml

A little sketchy, i'm sure, but an interesting read.

LOL. That's too funny. Have you had your brain scanned for Jesus today?

Yep. All clear

[undeterred]

in her heart, (Mom) is doing exactly as scriptures says.

The evil one could be your doubt and skepticism.

Yes, I realize I contradict myself from my earlier post about mom, but I know what is in moms heart. I don't know what is in yours...

Contradict away... But don't expect us to believe that your beliefs are deep seated if you contradict yourself.

I explained my contradiction quite adequately IMO. I don't know what is in your heart.

Your self-contradiction, which has not been explained, seems to be that there is a straightforward explanation for God not revealing himself to McCulloch, and it's pretty much the only explanation, but it doesn't apply to your mother.

The evil one could be your doubt and skepticism.

Do you think your mother has doubt and skepticism? So far that's been your only explanation for the absence of God in a person's life. And is "having no doubt and skepticism" the definition of an open, honest search anyway?

I have to trust that there is a reason He hasn't reached their hearts yet.

As I mentioned, the only reason you've put forward so far is doubt and skepticism, which goes back to my original question to you. Apart from that, you seem to be following the common pattern of making excuses for God. "His ways are not our ways...", etc.

You've equated the process of finding God, with "letting your guard down", as in trusting that someone loves you (in the human sense). Might I assume that you get your heart broken a lot? What if you open yourself to someone, and they don't return your love?

Your mother has reached out to God, and he's turned his back on her. The Heavenly Father, with perfect love abounding, has seen fit to withhold his favor. How low does that make the poor individual feel who needs God - holding out her arms and calling to him? (And here I'm referring to other cases I've seen, btw.)

This kind of torturous delusion is the tragic antithesis of religious elation.