Flavius Josephus

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bdbthinker
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Flavius Josephus

Post #1

Post by bdbthinker »

I have heard from many apologetics that Josephus provided a seperate, eyewitness account of Jesus. Is this true? If so, does this count for evidence for Jesus's existance?
Or is this account flawed like many theologians say it is. If so, how is it flawed?

I don't know much about it so I figure I'd start a forum where we could discuss the matter. Theists and non-theists, maybe we can get to the bottom of this Josephus matter (how's that for optimism :D)

Here are some links I found by just googling Josephus.

http://members.aol.com/FLJOSEPHUS/home.htm
http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/JOSEPHUS.HTM
http://home.earthlink.net/~kirby/xtianity/josephus.html
http://www.josephus-1.com/
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/josephus.html
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The Happy Humanist
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Post #61

Post by The Happy Humanist »

trs wrote:
SpinyNorman73 wrote:The histories of Josephus are regarded by historians as accurate depictions of history.
May I ask your source for this consensus?
SpinyNorman73 wrote:You can try to RATIONALIZE that parts you don't like of it away, but so far I haven't read a single thing that would make me SERIOUSLY cast it in doubt.
That may, of course, say far more about your selection bias than it does about the arguments for interpolation. Even the Catholic New Advent Encyclopaedia finds it necessary to note:
  • "Attempts have been made to refute the objections brought against this passage both for internal and external reasons, but the difficulty has not been definitively settled. The passage seems to suffer from repeated interpolations."
If it has not been already noted, an excellent resource for the topic can be found here. I would particularly recommend Kirby's Testimonium Flavianum.

trs
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Post #62

Post by trs »

SpinyNorman73 wrote:The histories of Josephus are regarded by historians as accurate depictions of history.
I thought it might be both fun and instructive to offer an example from Wars VI.292 ...
Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them. Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year. Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.

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