The Ark of the Covenant

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QED
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The Ark of the Covenant

Post #1

Post by QED »

I have commented many times on how the bible reveals the limited technical knowledge of its authors in ways that lead me to believe the key elements to be entirely man-made. But this lack of knowledge does not imply a lack of intellect, indeed I am making the point that the authors were not lacking in ingenuity when it came to drafting the stories in a fashion which would keep people glued to them for so long.

But let me relate what I see as typical of the sort of deceit that is employed in maintaining the entire edifice of religion, a particular example that I came across quite recently:

It was a TV documentary in which an anthropologist travels from the Holy land to Ethiopia where Solomons son is thought to have taken the Ark of the Covenant. Eventually the chap shows up at a small compound guarded by men brandishing AK47 rifles, where he asks for permission to see the Holy relic. His request is refused on the basis that the power of the relic is so strong that it will turn him to dust.

This example is one in which an extraordinary claim could actually be tested (not withstanding the AK47's) unlike most of the extraordinary claims in the old testament. But despite the fierce defense of biblical fundamentalists, symbols of covenant such as rainbows are not the same mystery now that they were 2000 years ago.

In the case of the Ark in Ethiopia, it is protected by a trick which effectively puts pay to any rational enquiry - leaving us either to take it on faith it or leave it. This type of trick seems to be pulled time and time again by presenting propositions carefully constructed to create an impasse to investigation and validation. If it wasn't for the critical mass due to the sheer numbers of followers, elaborate rituals and impressive machinery of all the major religions conducting such exercises who, I ask, would really take any of it seriously?

youngborean
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Post #2

Post by youngborean »

I personally don't believe that the ark is in ethopia. Nor do I really care if it is still around. It has no bearing on my faith. So to answer your question. I think as long as Bibles exist carrying the Gospel, people will believe because it is powerful.

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samuelbb7
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Post #3

Post by samuelbb7 »

:D Well atheists used to say that Nineveh was mythical and petra did not exist. That Daniel was wrong on who the last ruler of Babylon. But the Bible has proved to be correct by discoveries and the critics false. :D

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QED
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Post #4

Post by QED »

youngborean wrote:I personally don't believe that the ark is in ethopia. Nor do I really care if it is still around. It has no bearing on my faith. So to answer your question. I think as long as Bibles exist carrying the Gospel, people will believe because it is powerful.
But what are we to make of the all the extraordinary claims that give the gospel its power when some (if not all) are clearly no more than the product of mans boundless creativity. It seems to me that the faithful select what they wish from a broad menu and care not to think too much about the implications of rejecting that which displeases them.

If the bible has information about names and places then these can be treated as ordinary historical claims and as such can be validated using other sources. What a shame the same is not true of the more extraordinary claims. This is my whole point here, if the Ark has no bearing on your particular faith, the reasons for its irrelevance are no doubt mirrored in someone elses faith when they comes to consider some aspect of your own.

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Post #5

Post by youngborean »

If the bible has information about names and places then these can be treated as ordinary historical claims and as such can be validated using other sources. What a shame the same is not true of the more extraordinary claims.

What is the extraordinary claim that the bible is making about the ark? As you said yourself, there were people in Ethiopia who claimed this. But if your contention is with the extraordinary of the bible concerning the ark, then where does the bible claim that the ark will turn a man to dust?

Because there are Ethopians making money an intrigue off of the sucess of Indiana Jones really has nothing to do with the gospel at all. But you are associating Indiana Jones with the biblical narrative which was only loosely based on the bible.

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Post #6

Post by QED »

As far as I know, the most we would expect from the Ark would be the tablets on which the ten commandments were written. This wasn't my point... it was an example of the 'now you see me - now you don't' game that is normally played so far back in time as to be beyond scrutiny. But this particular case is useful in demonstrating how vulnerable extraordinary claims can be in the absence of such 'cover'.

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Post #7

Post by Arch »

youngborean wrote:

What is the extraordinary claim that the bible is making about the ark? As you said yourself, there were people in Ethiopia who claimed this. But if your contention is with the extraordinary of the bible concerning the ark, then where does the bible claim that the ark will turn a man to dust?
The claims in the bible concerning the ARK are that anyone who touches it outside of the Levitical preist of Israel would die immediately. :confused2:

Maybe this is where the "you will be turned to dust" theory comes from.

Also that is contains the ten commandments tablets and also that it was held in front of the Israelite war machine so that they could not be defeated.
RELIGION IS A PRISON FOR THE SEEKERS OF WISDOM
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Simply put if you cant prove it, you cant reasonably be mad at me for not believing it

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LillSnopp
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Post #8

Post by LillSnopp »

I have a question here (to both parties), If the "Ark" or "Ten commandments" would be found, in what way could you say they are "real"? As Christians refuse to accept any dating methods (as you know), how would you date them? Or, perhaps, suddenly, it will be ok, as long its dated less then 6000 years? (seriously Wondering)

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Post #9

Post by samuelbb7 »

First there was an army with an ark defeated. For GOD told them not to take it for they were not following GOD. After being taken the ark was placed in the Temple of the attacking enemies god. In the morning the statue of their god was found laying on it's face before the ark. After putting back up and securing their idol they found it on the floor the next morning with it's hands and head removed.

Then sent the ark to a sister city where similar happening and then plagues started. So they placed the ark on a cart with cows with calves and let them go to see what would happen. The ark was taken by the cows back to Israel.

The dating if Israel history is correct would be less then 6,000 years since the Exodus is in recorded history.

twobitsmedia

Post #10

Post by twobitsmedia »

QED wrote: if the Ark has no bearing on your particular faith, the reasons for its irrelevance are no doubt mirrored in someone elses faith when they comes to consider some aspect of your own.
It had historical significance, as did elements of the temple and such. They mean nothing now to Biblical faith and it is not likely the item these folks are protecting is the real ark, which may be the real reason they don't want anyone to see it. To the religious, who find solace in statues and beads and things like that it may have some significance. Some people find "spiritual" value in the virgin Mary in a grilled cheese....

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