A world without Religion

[BOgg]

Imagine the banishment of all religions in humanity, what and where would humanity go from there? Would Corporatism become our new God, could Science truly give us hope and morals? Just a thought, what could happen if tomorrow no religions, no spiritual guidance, no form whatsoever of preaching would be allowed about any subject possible? What would the world be like? (I am completely neutral about this.)

[Crazy Ivan]

No, it can also be held by one who simply does not care about the role of hormones in human behavior in regard to assigning a philosophical value of worth to someone. I have long accepted that human behavior largely correlates with their hormones. But so what? In what manner does that give me any motivation to value someone else's life?

Lucia would be more or less dead on. And I would be a very good example.

I find this disassociation odd... on the one hand you say you acknowledge the correlation between hormones and human behavior, and on the other you say this is something one might not "care about", implying "caring" or "valuing" aren't "behaviors" themselves. You don't see this as a contradiction?

[ChaosBorders]

No, it can also be held by one who simply does not care about the role of hormones in human behavior in regard to assigning a philosophical value of worth to someone. I have long accepted that human behavior largely correlates with their hormones. But so what? In what manner does that give me any motivation to value someone else's life?

Lucia would be more or less dead on. And I would be a very good example.

I find this disassociation odd... on the one hand you say you acknowledge the correlation between hormones and human behavior, and on the other you say this is something one might not "care about", implying "caring" or "valuing" aren't "behaviors" themselves. You don't see this as a contradiction?

No. Perhaps I personally simply have a deficiency of some of these hormones. Or perhaps my cognitive thought patterns are simply such that the emotions generated by most of these hormones are easier for me to ignore than most people. Certainly caring and valuing are behaviors themselves, but in absence of my beliefs I simply do not care or value other people's subjective opinions regarding their own worth. Nor in absence of my beliefs do I have a particularly valid reason to view empathy as a worthwhile emotion if it conflicts with my goals.

[Goat]

I'm challenging the rationality of the belief that "empathy" can originate strictly from "faith", which is inherently indemonstrable, as opposed to belief in a biochemical pathway, for which there is a body of objective evidence.

I don't know if this is the case for Chaosborders, but some people do attribute the worth of humans almost entirely to the fact that an omniscient creature created them. Therefore, if they didn't believe in said god, they'd see no problem in "disposing" of people that bother them, since other's emotions of even lives would have little value in their eyes.

And it seems to me such belief can only be held if one is ignorant of the role of hormones in human behavior, or if one rejects the body of evidence correlating human behavior with hormonal pathways.

I don't think it is entirely hormonal either. They found in the case of serial killers, there is a correlation with physical dysfunction in the temporal lobes.

[Crazy Ivan]

I'm challenging the rationality of the belief that "empathy" can originate strictly from "faith", which is inherently indemonstrable, as opposed to belief in a biochemical pathway, for which there is a body of objective evidence.

I don't know if this is the case for Chaosborders, but some people do attribute the worth of humans almost entirely to the fact that an omniscient creature created them. Therefore, if they didn't believe in said god, they'd see no problem in "disposing" of people that bother them, since other's emotions of even lives would have little value in their eyes.

And it seems to me such belief can only be held if one is ignorant of the role of hormones in human behavior, or if one rejects the body of evidence correlating human behavior with hormonal pathways.

I don't think it is entirely hormonal either. They found in the case of serial killers, there is a correlation with physical dysfunction in the temporal lobes.

Certainly. I trust the expression "biological wiring" covers all the bases in such an intricate matter. This as opposed to the notion that a "belief" has an influence in human behavior by itself, rather than correlated with said "biological wiring".

[ChaosBorders]

I'm challenging the rationality of the belief that "empathy" can originate strictly from "faith", which is inherently indemonstrable, as opposed to belief in a biochemical pathway, for which there is a body of objective evidence.

I don't know if this is the case for Chaosborders, but some people do attribute the worth of humans almost entirely to the fact that an omniscient creature created them. Therefore, if they didn't believe in said god, they'd see no problem in "disposing" of people that bother them, since other's emotions of even lives would have little value in their eyes.

And it seems to me such belief can only be held if one is ignorant of the role of hormones in human behavior, or if one rejects the body of evidence correlating human behavior with hormonal pathways.

I don't think it is entirely hormonal either. They found in the case of serial killers, there is a correlation with physical dysfunction in the temporal lobes.

Certainly. I trust the expression "biological wiring" covers all the bases in such an intricate matter. This as opposed to the notion that a "belief" has an influence in human behavior by itself, rather than correlated with said "biological wiring".

A belief 'by itself' is a contradiction in terms given all beliefs can ultimately be traced back in some way to said biological wiring. Perhaps there has been some confusion if you feel I ever suggested otherwise.

[Crazy Ivan]

A belief 'by itself' is a contradiction in terms given all beliefs can ultimately be traced back in some way to said biological wiring. Perhaps there has been some confusion if you feel I ever suggested otherwise.

Aren't you reducing your religious beliefs, and ultimately your belief in "god", to a result of biological wiring? I think it's only natural to assume that, to the believer, there is a transcendental quality to their religious beliefs, a connection to the "divine" of sorts, but definitely not just a result of biological wiring. Upon reflection, how does one truly believe in "god", if said belief is acknowledged to be potentially traceable to biological wiring?

[ChaosBorders]

A belief 'by itself' is a contradiction in terms given all beliefs can ultimately be traced back in some way to said biological wiring. Perhaps there has been some confusion if you feel I ever suggested otherwise.

Aren't you reducing your religious beliefs, and ultimately your belief in "god", to a result of biological wiring? I think it's only natural to assume that, to the believer, there is a transcendental quality to their religious beliefs, a connection to the "divine" of sorts, but definitely not just a result of biological wiring. Upon reflection, how does one truly believe in "god", if said belief is acknowledged to be potentially traceable to biological wiring?

My belief that I am typing on my computer can also be traced back to biological wiring, but that doesn't mean I'm not doing it.

[Crazy Ivan]

My belief that I am typing on my computer can also be traced back to biological wiring, but that doesn't mean I'm not doing it.

Do you typically consider propositions based on your own actions to be true or false? I would wager we're all in a very good position not to require "belief" in what we personally accomplish... Still, the "problem" here is that while you assert personal belief in "god", you also assert "god" is not required for "belief in god" to take place, which I think makes your belief rather "empty", but that's as unsupported as opinions get. And on a personal note, this exchange shouldn't make you think I don't find you exceptionally reasonable... for a theist.

[ChaosBorders]

My belief that I am typing on my computer can also be traced back to biological wiring, but that doesn't mean I'm not doing it.

Do you typically consider propositions based on your own actions to be true or false?

Huh? Could you rephrase. I think my brain might have stopped working ten minutes ago and it isn't entirely clear to me what you're asking here.

I would wager we're all in a very good position not to require "belief" in what we personally accomplish...

You clearly have no idea the depths of my natural skepticism. It also depends on what is meant by belief. Anything you can label 'knowledge' can also accurately be labeled as belief, by definition.

Still, the "problem" here is that while you assert personal belief in "god", you also assert "god" is not required for "belief in god" to take place, which I think makes your belief rather "empty", but that's as unsupported as opinions get.

Belief in something and the existence of something are two entirely distinct subjects. Nothing I have a belief exists actually needs to for me to have that belief if my biologically wired senses or cognitive patterns tells me it does. So if my belief in God is 'empty,' so is my belief in anything else.

[Crazy Ivan]

Huh? Could you rephrase. I think my brain might have stopped working ten minutes ago and it isn't entirely clear to me what you're asking here.

A "belief" is how we hold a proposition to be true or false. While accomplishing a thing, or performing an action, how could we ever hold it as "false"?

Belief in something and the existence of something are two entirely distinct subjects. Nothing I have a belief exists actually needs to for me to have that belief if my biologically wired senses or cognitive patterns tells me it does. So if my belief in God is 'empty,' so is my belief in anything else.

Can't quite put my finger on it... it seems to me there are logical implications here, so I'll start a thread and see if anyone has constructive input. Might be my imagination flaring up again... Will post link here when it's done.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 755#302755