Islam says Jesus was not crucified

[cholland]

Surah 4:157 - And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.

Is this true of Muslims? Jesus was not crucified?

[Goat]

What does the topic say? read the topic subject, its not asking for rising of Jesus, its asking for Jesus crucification, means was Jesus dead or no. you idnt provide that evidence.

Actually.. No.. it was asking if in the Islamic texts if there was the claim he was not crucified. That challenge has been shown to be true, that in the Islamic texts, he was not crucified.

However There is matthew

27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth. (27:44) "The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth."
Did both thieves revile Jesus?

(27:45, 51-53)
When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels.

(27:46)
"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
What were the last words of Jesus?
Is Jesus God?
27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
27:47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
27:48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
27:49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.


Mark

15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
15:35 And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
15:36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. (15:37-38) "The veil of the temple was rent."
When did the Temple curtain rip?
15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.



Luke

23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.<


John

19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
19:32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Well done, uve provided enough verses, but none of them can claim to be true,as all those who wrote these gospels, were not present there, and the authors of these gospels are unknown.
They gave these stories as they heard from traditions, others were just writen long time after . no perfect evidence was found for the athority of Crucifiction.

Now,tell me, how many people went to tomb on sunday morning? the gospels make diferent accounts, Mary was ofcourse there, but y did she went there?historians say to annoint Jesus, but do Jews annoint a dead body?
When Jesus came to the room of diciples, y did they diciples got scared?Why Mary didnt got scared when he met Jesus outside tomb?

Last question, was Jesus hands nailed to the cross or tied?

Shifting of goal posts again I see. First, you ask to see if Jesus said anything after he was killed.. I showed you in the Christian scriptures , yes he was.

Then you asked ot see if he actually was killed in the Christian scriptures.. and yes. I showed according to the Christian scriptures he was.

Now, you want me to prove that the Christian scriptures are true?? Frankly, it doesn't matter to me one way or another. The point being made that yes, in Christianity, Jesus was crucified, and he was killed according to their scripture, and in Islam, no he was not.

I don't believe either of those pieces of writings, since I am neither Christian or Muslim. The issue is meaningless to me, and it is meaningless to the concept that Christians believe one thing, and Muslims believe the other.

[van]

This is statement from Paul.he is no any authority, we can;t consider his vision for anything, if something comes direct from Jesus, it is acceptable.Paul is himself themost controversial figure in christian history.

You obviously didn't do your reading assignment and your reasoning makes no sense-

Jesus did come to Paul and speak directly to him. Paul had eyewitnesses to Jthis event-his travel companions. There was also the outside witness of Ananias who Jesus spoke to. Paul's entire life and treatment of Christians changed.

Mohammad had no eyewitnesses and no outside collaborating witness to the meeting with the "angel" and the quran. It is simply his word saying that he himself is the last prophet and recipient of revelations. So it is his word against Jesus'.

But he is stating son of man here:) and as per christians he is son of God. Also Jesus didnt stayed in tomb for 3 days . So the verses are not from Jesus and are not real, its itself contradicting. Bring another evidence my friend

Funny that Christians would hang on to something that seems so false. Why would we do that? Answer - We can not change the WORD of GOD.

We did not gather up all the seemingly different or inconsistant Books that make up the Gospel and change them to all coordinate. What seems to be a mistake or contradiction always adds more information and deeper understanding to the Holy Bible.

Please go to the following sites to understand this fufilled prophecy- which by the way is the only way to prove if a revealation is from GOD.

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVansw ... 01-11c.htm http://www.tgm.org/3DaysN3Nites.html
or type in to google search "was Jesus in the grave 3 days"

[TrueReligion]

What does the topic say? read the topic subject, its not asking for rising of Jesus, its asking for Jesus crucification, means was Jesus dead or no. you idnt provide that evidence.

Actually.. No.. it was asking if in the Islamic texts if there was the claim he was not crucified. That challenge has been shown to be true, that in the Islamic texts, he was not crucified.

However There is matthew

27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth. (27:44) "The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth."
Did both thieves revile Jesus?

(27:45, 51-53)
When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels.

(27:46)
"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
What were the last words of Jesus?
Is Jesus God?
27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
27:47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
27:48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
27:49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.


Mark

15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
15:35 And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
15:36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. (15:37-38) "The veil of the temple was rent."
When did the Temple curtain rip?
15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.



Luke

23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.<


John

19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
19:32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Well done, uve provided enough verses, but none of them can claim to be true,as all those who wrote these gospels, were not present there, and the authors of these gospels are unknown.
They gave these stories as they heard from traditions, others were just writen long time after . no perfect evidence was found for the athority of Crucifiction.

Now,tell me, how many people went to tomb on sunday morning? the gospels make diferent accounts, Mary was ofcourse there, but y did she went there?historians say to annoint Jesus, but do Jews annoint a dead body?
When Jesus came to the room of diciples, y did they diciples got scared?Why Mary didnt got scared when he met Jesus outside tomb?

Last question, was Jesus hands nailed to the cross or tied?

Shifting of goal posts again I see. First, you ask to see if Jesus said anything after he was killed.. I showed you in the Christian scriptures , yes he was.

No you didnt, the 1 you showed it doesnt show Jesus was kiled

Then you asked ot see if he actually was killed in the Christian scriptures.. and yes. I showed according to the Christian scriptures he was.

Its not mentioned in christian scripture that Jesus was killed, your reference was not correct, its proven Jesus was not killed as per their own scripture.

Now, you want me to prove that the Christian scriptures are true?? Frankly, it doesn't matter to me one way or another. The point being made that yes, in Christianity, Jesus was crucified, and he was killed according to their scripture, and in Islam, no he was not.

Its not mention even in christianity that he was killed, all the evidences are showing he was alive, which Jesus said himself. so Quran is correctas always.

I don't believe either of those pieces of writings, since I am neither Christian or Muslim. The issue is meaningless to me, and it is meaningless to the concept that Christians believe one thing, and Muslims believe the other.

I know you are Jew, and it does;nt matter to you, so your knowledge of these events is also limited and not correct. all your evidences are wrong here my friend

[TrueReligion]

This is statement from Paul.he is no any authority, we can;t consider his vision for anything, if something comes direct from Jesus, it is acceptable.Paul is himself themost controversial figure in christian history.

You obviously didn't do your reading assignment and your reasoning makes no sense-

The one you can;t take you should not ignore as not making sense:) its showing a loosing part from you

Jesus did come to Paul and speak directly to him. Paul had eyewitnesses to Jthis event-his travel companions. There was also the outside witness of Ananias who Jesus spoke to. Paul's entire life and treatment of Christians changed.

No one cares what Paul say, because he is not an authority and he contradicts what Jesus say, so bring something from Jesus directly, whch is acceptable, we believe in Jesus, not in Paul, as he was enemy of Jesus.

Mohammad had no eyewitnesses and no outside collaborating witness to the meeting with the "angel" and the quran. It is simply his word saying that he himself is the last prophet and recipient of revelations. So it is his word against Jesus'.

its ur dream and lack of knowledge my friend,its proven from history, but if you are asking how he know the verses and prophethood. same thing is applied on Jesus as well. but muslims dont treat Jesus and Muhammad seperatly, they both are peophets of God. Dats y its only muslims who believe in Jesus, no other religion believes in Jesus.

But he is stating son of man here:) and as per christians he is son of God. Also Jesus didnt stayed in tomb for 3 days . So the verses are not from Jesus and are not real, its itself contradicting. Bring another evidence my friend

Funny that Christians would hang on to something that seems so false. Why would we do that? Answer - We can not change the WORD of GOD.

You want to proof how many words of God you changed? whole Bible is ful of this changes, omitence, alterations, additions. Paul changed the whole view of Jesus teachings, yet you are saying christians didnt change word of God? its a big shame my friend

We did not gather up all the seemingly different or inconsistant Books that make up the Gospel and change them to all coordinate. What seems to be a mistake or contradiction always adds more information and deeper understanding to the Holy Bible.

Please go to the following sites to understand this fufilled prophecy- which by the way is the only way to prove if a revealation is from GOD.

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVansw ... 01-11c.htm http://www.tgm.org/3DaysN3Nites.html
or type in to google search "was Jesus in the grave 3 days"

Your church website means nothing my friend, what matters is the view of historians and theologians. and its quite simple as to find out thousands of errors in bible, its already admited, if you are saying going in deep study the errors may be vanished, its your dream, maybe you have'nt read the post "50,000 errors in bible".

Also Jesus was not in grave, it was Tomb, you are christian you dont know this? and he was also not 3 days there. its a known fact, a big blunder of Christianity and Bible.

[Goat]

I know you are Jew, and it does;nt matter to you, so your knowledge of these events is also limited and not correct. all your evidences are wrong here my friend

I am trying to find the relevance of this. It is a personal attack, rather than dealing with the evidence presented. I know a lot more about the Christian religion that you do.

Perhaps you wish to address the passages I pointed out in context, with out resorting to a muslim 'We hate Christian' web site?

I accept the Mulsims web sites when it comes to what Muslims believe.... and I accept the Christan web sites about what the Christian's believe.

[TrueReligion]

I know you are Jew, and it does;nt matter to you, so your knowledge of these events is also limited and not correct. all your evidences are wrong here my friend

I am trying to find the relevance of this. It is a personal attack, rather than dealing with the evidence presented. I know a lot more about the Christian religion that you do.

You consider it a personal attack for calling you a Jew? does it sound any abuse to you?
If you know enough knowledge of chrtianity, you should know the exact verse,and should knowalso that Jesus was never dead, and he himself said about this miracle. want proof?

Perhaps you wish to address the passages I pointed out in context, with out resorting to a muslim 'We hate Christian' web site?

I didnt said that we hate christian web-site, the reference you gave of verses of Jesus crucifiction, are wrong,and it has no relevance with Jesus crucifiction. I asked you some questions regarding the event, you could;nt even reply 1 of them, this shows how much knowledge you have about christianity.

I accept the Mulsims web sites when it comes to what Muslims believe.... and I accept the Christan web sites about what the Christian's believe.

About christian beliefs, the true christian scholars and historians dont belief also, and would you belief in a book with full of errors and verses removed, added by humans itself.
Jesus said that not a single dot to be removed, but christians remove full chapters and added their own,is this belief you trust and respect?
Sorry, but muslims never do atleast this, and never a claim came true of error and contradiction in Quran.

[otseng]

I know you are Jew, and it does;nt matter to you, so your knowledge of these events is also limited and not correct. all your evidences are wrong here my friend

Moderator warning:

This would be an ad hominem attack. A person's worldview does not equate to level of knowledge of a particular topic.

[Mascaput]

The true crucifixtion is mentioned in detail here. which many christians agreed. and nowhere in bible is completly mentioned.
Infact bible cannot be authenticated, as its not words or writen by Jesus(pbuh) or either of his diciples.
Further, not even a single diciple was present at the moment. so all stories in bible is fake .

http://www.jamaat.net/crux/Crux1-5.html

The Koran disagrees with islam...

Sura 86 is s treasure trove of Koranic information relating to Jesus’ crucifixion until death upon the cross and His subsequent singular resurrection.

We find this information contained in 86.5 – 86.8, as thus…


86.5 So, the human looks upon that which was created the inner man. (The reason for the gathering of the souls: Jesus is viewed upon the Cross)

86.6 The inner man was created out of water pouring forth at once. (Jesus’ Crucifixion & death upon the Cross)

86.7 He emerges from amidst the Cross and the grave. Or…86.7 He emerges from between the backbone and the ribs. (Jesus’ Crucifixion & Resurrection)

86.8 Truly Him above, He returned Him to the present state of existence after death, truly possessing power. (Jesus’ Singular Resurrection)

You were asked to provide justification of crucifixion of Jesus, as per the detail provided in link. If you dont have answer, just tell or keep silent, dont skip the question as always

A link for a link...

Here is one that provides a 200+ page detailed exegesis as to why the koran confirms Jesus' crucifixion until death upon the cross...

http://www.freeforum101.com/koranicbibl ... ranicbible

What a load of utter nonsense and stupitidy. It is taking just a few words that were very common to use as poetic devices, and arbitrarily assigning them to mean Jesus. "The bright morning star" is also used for Lucifier in Isaiah , so does that mean Jesus is Satan?

Indeed. An "the bright and morning star" also refers to the planet Venus. It's not really surprising that this has come up, as the bible says very little about how the process of Jesus' ordeal was executed by the Romans.
What is strange is that, like many other pieces of text that don't fit in with what people are trained to believe, this very odd one is ignored.
We all know of the man called Peter, Jesus' right hand man so to speak, and we could reasonably presume that he would know something authoritative on the "crucifixion" account. Strangely, I've never once heard a Christian speak about not just one such account about something else, as in where the bible itself, the presumed word of the triune deity called "God" makes direct and categorical statements that Jesus was "hanged on a tree" as in:

Acts 5: 29- 30 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, "We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." (this says that he was killed first, and then hanged on a tree)

and:

Acts 10:39 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree. (this also says that he was killed first, and then hanged on a tree)

and:

Acts 13: 28 - 29
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. (...on a tree, yet again)

and:

1 Peter 2:23-24 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness:

So, if Peter couldn't be trusted to give an accurate account of what happened Jesus, who could? Paul/Saul, the Roman Jew who was a murderer and a persecutor of the followers of The Way, which is what the followers of Jesus were originally called, and were not called “Christian� until long after, at Antioch, some decades afterwards? Who would dare to re-write the texts that later became accepted as "the bible"? One might wonder.

The hallowed Book of Man, the text of the original "bible", does mention a crucifixion, but that indicates that it was more to do with the way a man is killed with his arms stretched out (in a crux, cross shape) and bound with ropes to a beam that would be dragged up onto the branches of an olive tree, which conveniently facilitate this particular mode of execution.

The religious image of the cross itself, therefore, must not be true, as it makes no sense for the Romans to have a nice piece of planed and varnished wood to kill a common criminal on, does it? Or, was Peter lying? Is it not possible that one of the accounts is not correct? If so, which?

The standard routine for these kinds of deaths was that the condemned man was given a pole or beam to carry to the place of his execution, and he was then nailed to that beam through the palms or the wrists, with the wrists being the favoured method, as nails in the palms would tend to tear through when carrying the weight of the body. The only reason that they might nail someone through the hands would be to produce plenty blood as a distraction for something else, as he was only on the tree for three hours or so.

M

[van]

John 20
24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

"the bible says very little about how the process of Jesus' ordeal was executed by the Romans. "
LOL!! too funny when compared to the Quran that is extrememly vque on just about every matter except for killing the non-muslims!

[Mascaput]

John 20
24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

"the bible says very little about how the process of Jesus' ordeal was executed by the Romans. "
LOL!! too funny when compared to the Quran that is extrememly vque on just about every matter except for killing the non-muslims!

That's my point about all these religious writings, as they all just look at what suits them, which is what it seems all the blindness of faith is all about. It appears to be all a matter of "My god is bigger and better than your god, and if you don't accept I will kill you".

M